Bob Rouleau

Around here, a good detailer brings in a guy with an airbrush and he makes the scratches vanish. Works greast ojn stone chips too. No need to repaint and like the rest, I prefer the factory finish - always.

Moogle

have them paint as little as possible, definitely do NOT have the whole car repainted.

a complete repaint is a big red flag when it comes time to sell the car.

Bruce P

I have been in the paint supply business for 20+ years and there is no such thing as a perfect color match. There is a phenomenon in the color industry called metamerizm. It has to do with the fact that two people can make the "same" color using different various tints and each one will react differently in differing light sources. What this causes is a 'match' under certain light sources and a mismatch under another light source. Speed Yellow (I have a 94 C4S SY) is a difficult color because the factory does not paint each car exactly the same. SY is a poor hiding color and in some instances I have seen the primer color affect the overall color as the SY is not sprayed to full hiding. The factory paint is still hand applied and I can point out on my car several items that do not match ( I picked car up at the factory) like the roof rail filler strips. If anyone thinks that the paint that is sold in the refinish market is identical to that which is used at the factory they are not knowledgable about the paint and repair industry. Everyones eyes are different and sensitive to a different part of the color spectrum unique to their own eyes. Anyone that says that you can acheive a perfect 'butt panel' color match by panel painting probably does not have as much sensitivity in that part of the color spectrum. I would always search out the shop that would effect the repair with a proper blend procedure to create an illusion for the color match and then 'seal' in the illusion by clearcoating all the way to a panel edge. In addition the computer readers are still not developed to a point where they are a substitute for the human eye. All they do is read a color and pick out the closest one in the data bank and possibly do a small adjustment to the formula. But in using these devices for 10+ years they are still no match (no pun intended) for the human eye and we constantly tweak the formula they spit out.

Moogle

very interesting read Bruce, how bout some paragraphing next time , hurting MY eyes

Holger B

Bruce, as someone in the biz with lots of knowledge, what's your criteria for selecting a body shop (other than seeing high end cars being worked on there)?

Thanks.

Bob Rouleau

Bruce - I cannot dispute your expertise. My experience with a SY Boxster S and an expert with an airbrush is that the repair was invisible. Is it possible that fine scratches or chips which are a very tiny percentage of the surface do not show the mismatch as much as say, a basketball sized dent? I knew where the stone chips were because I had done a halfway decent job myself using touchup paint and a tootpick with a lot of patience. After the "chips-away" guy was done with his airbrush, I could not find the repair. Mind you we're talking about stone chips about 1/8 of an inch around.

Rgds,

MetalSolid

I've had my SY car next to several other SY cars, and there's always a slight difference.

If the insurance co. isn't gonna pay to paint the whole car just re-paint the damaged sections, you can alway re-spray the entire car later if it doesn't match - an opportunity to get the GT3RS nose. If you can get the insurance co. to paint the whole car, do it!

Bruce P

Holger-- I give a fair amount of talks to the local car clubs on that topic and while it is impossible for me to recommend one of my customers over another I give the audience questions to ask of any prospective shop such as the following.

Are your technicians I-Car certified?
What type of measuring system do you use in the unibody shop?
Can you give me a computer printout of all the unibody measurement points before and after repair?
What procedures/products do you use to maintain the factory corrosion protection?
Can I visit the shop at anytime to view the progress on my vehicle?
Does your shop emply the use of spot welders and if so what is their capacity/size?
Do you own a mil thickness gauge and if so what is the expected thickness of the refinish materials after the repair?
What is your warranty/ What does it cover both from a structural standpoint and a refinish standpoint?
Is the warranty on the refinish materials honored around the US?
Do you have a baking spray booth capable of curing 2K component refinish materials?
How much do you color sand and buff the final finish?
Do you use any single component refinish materials and or glazing putties?
Do you have an onsite color mixing system?
Does your refinish technician hold any color matching credentials?
Does your shop use any glazes to detail the car before delivery?
Does your shop use after market (read non-OEM) crash parts?

This is a short list. There are many more specific questions that can be asked depending on the actual repair being done. Part of the problem is getting a repair that looks good when complete only to have a latent defect that shows up months later. This is the biggest problem for the airbrush artist types that probably do not use 2K components like the factory. Modern day paints that are equivalent to the factory are warrantied for life when applied by a certified applicator.

Phokaioglaukos

Bruce, very interesting and a bit provocative! What are the right answers to some of the more obscure questions, like color sanding and buffing and use of glazes?

Bruce P

One way to use a little leverage on your insurance company to pay for a proper repair is to use an argument of diminshed value. If it is your insurance company paying the bill it is most likely an ACV (actual cash value) policy and some courts have upheld the idea of diminshed value. Simply stated if two identical make and model cars are on a dealers lot and the dealer is asking an identical price and then tells a prospective purchaser that one of the cars had had collision repairs done (even if done to the highest quality standard) virtually everyone will choose to puchase the vehicle that had not been damaged. As pointed out prviously in this thread, exotic cars like our P cars are not worth as much in the consumers eye even when excellent collision repairs are done. I have successfully used this argument to pressure the insurance company to do the repairs the way that I wanted them and in one instance I even collected diminished value when I was a claimant against another company whose insured hit me.

Bruce P

Chris --- You want to make sure that the finished repair does not exceed 10 mils (.010 inches) in total thickness. In addition every manufacturers warranty that I am familiar with requires at least 2 mills of clearcoat. Therefore, if the shop is not careful about application and dirt in the paint and has to color sand and buff the repair they may be giving you less than the 2 mils which will not be warranteed by the manufacturer.

If a shop uses a lot of glaze type products to detail the car before delivery it means they have color sanded and buffed with materials that are too coarse and the scratches and swirl marks will come back in a few days/weeks. They have simply put a band-aid on a permanent problem.

Tour18

Someone needs to put these killer threads in a grouping. This is another one that justifies the cost of Rennlist membership.

Cupcar

Insurance companies ignore the fact that a repaired vehicle sells like a refrigerator flies.

Diminished value is a place insurers do not want to go in my experience, glad to see others have had success in their argument.

I was told the insurance company feels their job was is to re-establish lost function/appearance not lost value.

We are self insured for lost value. I'm suprised there are not more suits against individuals at fault to regain lost value, say for example when one backs their SUV into your GT2 and does $5000 in "damage" but $15,000 in lost value.

Moogle

why bother nearly every thread is an education in itself , off topic section excluded

Alan Smithee

Fighting your insurance company for lost value is likely a waste of time; I'm sure most, if not all, policies have a clause similar to mine. Under "exclusions", it reads:

"This policy does not apply to loss due to diminution in value of any motor vehicle repaired under comprehensive or collision coverages"

If there is a company that provides reimbursement for "diminution in value", please let us know!