Porsche. From the "Hell Freezes Over" File, Automotive News Europe reported that Porsche is considering building a hybrid version of the Cayenne - using a Toyota powertrain. Readers of this site know exactly what we think about the Cayenne, but it's clear that this is a new low in Porsche history. The company that was founded on building lithe little sports cars that bristled with innovation and the visionary thinking of its founder has now openly admitted that they have given up on the innovation game altogether. Porsche insists that it has to act quickly in order to meet upcoming stricter regulations in the U.S. (and the growing interest in fuel economy by American consumers), but it's clear that if Porsche hadn't succumbed to the siren song of instant SUV-driven profits and had built an AWD vehicle that adhered to their founder's vision, instead of building a bloated, 5,000+ lb. truck that represents everything Porsche is not - they might not have to be trolling for powertrains from an outside source. By signalling that Porsche is either incapable or unwilling to engage in innovative, creative solutions to execute the Porsche philosophy in a new fuel-efficiency-prioritized market environment, CEO Wendelin Wiedeking has now officially and finally removed Porsche from the ranks of the world's great car companies. By turning its back on the company's history and everything the brand once stood for, Porsche is now no different than any other mass auto manufacturer out there, becoming of all horrible things - just another car company. We wonder when the butchery of Porsche's history, traditions and reputation will stop? Perhaps they should consider getting out of the car-building business altogether - after all, they sell more trucks than sports cars now, so what does it matter at this point? Maybe they could just keep the negotiations with Toyota going, because we're quite sure if they look hard enough they could find a Toyota that they could easily slap the Porsche crest on and call it a day. Who knows? Maybe Porsche will end up being bought out by another car company, the one thing that Wiedeking insists will never happen. Let's review, shall we? Porsche gave up racing for the overall win at the 24 Hours of Le Mans six years ago (in order to develop the Cayenne), they have abandoned the innovation and creativity that they once thrived on, and by the time they're finished, they will have destroyed one of the world's greatest automotive brands - running it right into the ground. Given that, Toyota should be able to get a "fire sale" deal on the whole shebang. This news should finally push the longstanding, hardcore Porsche enthusiasts - the ones who had turned into apologists rationalizing the existence of the Cayenne - right over the edge.


Top 10 AE Name Suggestions for Porsche's New Toyota-Powered Cayenne. 10. The Cayenne FOI (we're Flat Out of Ideas). 9. The Cayenne CT (power Courtesy of Toyota). 8. The Cayenne HB (Hybrid, Borrowed). 7. The Cayenne RSE (Rising Sun Edition). 5. The Cayenne SM (Slow-Motion). 4. The Cayenne YFK (You have to be F---ing Kidding me!). 3. The Cayenne TI (Temporary Insanity). 2. The Cayenne ETW (Et Tu, Wendelin?). And the No. 1. AE name suggestion for Porsche's new Toyota-powered Cayenne? The Toyota Cayenne (we gave up and sold the whole damn company!).

Toyota. They would never admit it publicly, but the people at Toyota have to be secretly "high-fiving" behind closed doors at the news that Porsche has come to them, hat in hand, begging for a powertrain for their ill-conceived Cayenne. We've written often about the burgeoning Toyota Juggernaut, the one automobile company in the world that seems to be virtually unstoppable, but this news changes everything. Toyota is now a technical tour de force, not just a dominant sales and marketing entity. Toyota is fully engaged on all fronts - it races in Formula 1, IndyCar, NASCAR and grass roots sports car racing, it has led the charge on innovative fuel-efficient powertrains, it has supplanted Chevrolet as "America's Car" in the U.S. market, and it has set its sights on capturing 15 percent of the worldwide automobile market by 2010, matching GM's current total. As we've said many times of late, Toyota will easily blow right by GM and become the No. 1 automaker in the world.

relevant, but ?
no, critical to gt2/3 future

 

Wasnt it Toyota who had 'Kill Porsche' as their mission statement at one point? Perhaps theyre trying in a different vein now...

 

I certainly wouldn't argue that with you Watt, but at least they are still a independant company and there are darn few of those left in the world. Whether the Cayenne and related projects is part of what will keep them that way will be born out over the next few years I guess.
PS I think your CS in silver looks great, It's nice to see on thats not red.

 

I'm still happy to have the Porsche trucks subsidize the cost of producing my GT3 and, if Porsche fails to develop further GT2/3 cars, I'll just treasure my GT3 all the more....

 

I would rather see PAG spend the money and time developing a race car than their own alternative fuel system for the limited number of hybrid sales.

 

I posted this in OT a while back: https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topic/166417-dear-god-no-porsche-considering-toyota-engine.html

That would really dent Porsche's prestige, imho.

 

Hey, as the very happy owner of a Prius, which I'm loving as my daily driver, I think it is a fantastic idea. Hybrid is the stepping stone forward, and if PAG don't get on board they'll be fossil fuel dinosaurs.

I'd be happy as a clam if I could have a Cayanne hybrid, and even happier with the 2,500lb 500hp GT3 they'll build using the profits and spin off technology from it to make as the flagship 911.

Where can I put my depoist down now?
I want the first one!

 

fwiw, it's well known that fiat... [ahem] ferrari, is a thinly disguised socialist car, bank rolled by the state of italy. it's inevitable that car makers in the free world will form partnerships. they (porsche) hired honda execs to show them how to make a cheaper boxster, all in the interest in keeping porsche profitable and independent. i think the marriage of a toyota mill and a porsche chassis is not a bad thing. If fiat helps make ferrari profitable, then why not toyota help porsche sell more cayennes so we can still have our 911s?

 

PS.......Watt, did you see this little number from PMNA in Phillip's post?
Caynanne YTD sales versus the sales of all the 911's combined!

ALL 911's............................8059
ALL CAYENNE's...................14836

 

well said!!

i put this up to stimulate discussion and it did. personally, i believe resources that don't go to racing and sports cars are wasted with regard to what i want from porsche: faster, lighter better stripper sports cars. to achieve my objectives best, i'd like porsche as a subsidiary of ford/gm/bmw....... let them market the trux and sedans

 

I agree that a $60k Porsche with a $30k Toyota Highlander drivetrain will further deteriorate the brand. I also believe Toyota's hybrid cannot be morphed into any sort of performance-oriented drivetrain. As much as I hate the idea of the VW VR6-powered Cayenne due to its weak performance, at least it sounds nice and likes to rev at high RPMs as Porsche motors traditionally do, and you can get it with a manual transmission.

But my biggest issue is that this will all be for what? Another 5mpg? I don't see a 5,300lb truck taking advantange of this drivetrain designed for a vehicle weighing 1,000lbs less. IMO, a more effective way to improve mileage in such a large vehicle without giving up performance and towing ability (the whole point of the thing weighing so damned much) is to source turbodiesels from VW...they've got a V6, V8, and V10 to choose from, and they're already designed for the Touareg/Cayenne platform. The cost of dropping one in would be minimal, which would maximize profits to fund more sporting projects.

 

I second the Diesel engine solution. I just got back from a couple of weeks in Europe and those big BMW's Mercedes and Audis with diesels really go nicely. Quiet, powerful and amazing fuel economy. I don't know why we're fascinated with hybrids and electrics in North America, the Europeans have dealt with sky-high fuel prices and the answer is Diesel engines. We had a Mercedes rental mit diesel engine and it was a pleasure to drive. V8 diesels are pretty much all you see in luxury cars over there and there is no pain associated with driving one, especially with the cleaner fuels - no black smoke no smell just lots of power and miserly fuel consumption.

 

I third (?) the diesels. This past August I instructed a good friend's daughter at Watkins Glen in her Golf Diesel. Besides the fact that it went pretty well for 80hp, she drove it up from Philly, did three days, and drove it home on one tank of fuel. Over 450 total miles as we can figure it. The only real problem that we had was that I kept telling her to give it the gas, and finally I changed to "GIVE IT THE OIL"!

 

I hate to say it but the problem is the consumer-US- not Porsche. Porsche is responding to market forces and providing product at a price the market will bear given the competition in their segment.

We are getting ripped off so to speak, Porsche should be providing more innovation and quality at the prices they are charging, yet the cars continue to sell. According to an article a while back in Forbes, Porsche makes 23% on a Boxster S and 45% on a Turbo, I project they make 100% on a GT2-these are the highest per unit profit numbers in the industry by a wide margin.

Look at what Audi offers in the A8 for a base price of $66,590: 335 HP 5 valve alloy V8 , 4 wheel drive, 6 speed Tiptronic gearbox all manner of luxuries such as fancy sound system, cruise control, leather, in a 4 door car with most signficantly an ALL ALUMINUM BODY. Forged alloy 19" wheels are around $1800 extra.

Porsche on the other hand offers the standard 911 for $69,300 with a 321 HP 6 cyl 4 valve engine, manual 6 speed, 2 wheel drive in a 2 door mostly steel body with many features priced as options that are standard on the Audi.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want more features like a fancy audio system in my Porsche, thats not my point.

The cars still sell because since their is no perceived competition in their segment, no more innovation or quality is required to sell them in a market that doesn't demand it.

 

"If fiat helps make ferrari profitable,"

Of course Fiat owns some 56% of the Ferrari Maserati Group, but how does Fiat help make Ferrari profitable? Sorry to be OT, but I don't understand.