M578 your point is well taken but I believe there is more involved here. Most of us are guys who take great pleasure in the car we drive and the emotional and prestige factor weighs on our collective egos. Far be it for me to speak of others but I know that what I am doing in my GT-3 I could do much cheaper in many other vehicles - as you mentioned, but I don't care.

I have worked much or my life to be able to drive this car and there comes a certain statisfaction in driving what is close to the ultimate car offered from those guys in Ziffenhousen.

I think I suck at putting this into words - let me say that the "cool factor" figures heavily into the reason I drive a GT-3. Is it practical - of course not! Certainly I could have fun in a FM or an older car but for me it's not the same as driving the finest from Modena or Stuttgart. It's just not.

Now, when it comes to racing a whole another set of factors come into play. There is little point in going racing with a street car - at least one as expensve as the GT-3 unless you have Teresa Heinz Kerry type of money which I don't. In fact I don't even have the means to make a large fortune into a small one by racing as the old cliche goes. So, should I ever decide to take up racing at age 48 I would have to weigh my choices. But for now doing Time Trials and STS with POC and track days with my friends is keeping me happy and doing it in a GT-3 keeps me extemely happy.

I'm extremely fortunate that I can afford to drive this car (not that it was all luck).

-Kevin

 

Hey guys,
I do not mind that you track your cars at all. I do know that they are fun at whatever speed or cost. That is not the issue.

My take is that these cars are about the top 2 cars in the US for street legal stock out of the box on track ability and performance. In my mind off the showroom floor nothing matches them. Only things close are what you have already mentioned.

That said if you want to be even MORE track focused then I don't think you will get there with a box stock car off any show room floor. To get more track feel and excitement takes some thing purpose built. That could be factory race car, but those are rarely street legal . There are however plenty of shops that can take street car and turn it in to track monster and keep it street legal with any luck.

So instead of looking to the best a factory can put out... look to a professionally modifed street car for more focued track performance. GT2 and GT3 are as good as it gets for any car in stock form.

 

I agree, u but the lotus does come close for value vs. fun.

 

Richard, when and what colour is in Arlings's hands...

Another car to consider could be a used Z06, right now they're very cheap and only require brakes and minor suspension mods to make track-ready.

[EDIT]Don't forget, a dedicated trackcar has to be disposable - easy to fix, maintain and replace - GT3/2s, 360s, Nobles... don't fall into this category unless you're very rich.

 

The lotus and CS are great competition for the GT2 & GT3. Personal preference and cost really biggest differences in what some one will buy.

I do not think however that any of those is head and shoulders "more focused" than the rest. If you have been in car with stripped interior 1 or 2 racing seats, 6 point harness and roll bar and heard the marbles bouncing off the inside of the fenders only to echo like mad inside the car and felt every little bump in the road you understand what "More focused" is.

PS.. any open wheeled or sports racer is another step in the "more focused" group beyond a stripped out street car, but will never be street legal and requires the effort and baggage of a tow vehicle, etc

 

I agree with your point. I can't speak for Richard (CodeRed) but for me the GT-3 is as focused as I need right now. Could be that I want a more focused car someday (maybe soon ) and you are right that a race car would be the way to go.

 

IMHO if you can afford a GT2 and a 550, you can probably afford to have an arrive and drive service prep, transport, and provide trackside support for a race car. Have you guys driven a purpose built race car? I can certainly appreciate the satisfaction of tracking porsches or ferrari's greatest street car, but it doesn't match the thrill of of sliding around a corner nose to gearbox at 1.8 g's. You guys owe it to yourselves to try a proper open wheeler or sports racer. I liked tracking a modded turbo, but it's not in the same ballpark with the FM. A car that's liveable on the street has too many compromises to be a truly great track car.
P.S. The car flipping sickness is just as bad with race cars as it is with street cars. I bet 1/2 of the radical owners are contemplating a Stohr. My FM1 is in dire danger of getting dumped for an Atlantic or a FM2. It doesn't let up. Hmmm, maybe an old Benneton car. Yeah, thats it.

 

The car flipping sickness is just as bad with race cars as it is with street cars
Ahhh yes, the the habit remains the same, the fix is just a little different, and costlier!
How do you know what is a good second hand race car anyhow? It seems as sensible as buying a used hand grenade (one careful owner, only used once etc)
I have enjoyed window shopping TRG's site, but I wonder how on earth do you find a good used race car?

 

The Stradale is every bit as focused as the GT3. I've tracked mine a lot, and it's awesome. The Stradale is also way more focused than the regular Modena.

If you want a car mainly for the track, however, you might not want a Stradale because 1) it costs a lot, 2) the choice of tires is limited, and 3) brakes pads and rotors are expensive. For track-only work, a 360 Challenge car is a better deal. You can get one for between $100-140K.

 

Radicals are great. I certainly love mine. However, keep in mind that once you push the car appropriately, a set of tires is good for about 10 heat cycles, the engine is good for about 30h before rebuild (more if you have a 1300cc), and you need to change the oil, flush the brake fluid, check most bolts every 2 track days or so.

This is how I ended up purchasing an half track / street 993 C4S which had already all the go fast parts. The C4S is for track days. The radical is for racing or racing preparation. This said, my car would not be competitive in CSR. Stohr are much faster but hey it is fast enough for me and I love the fact it has 2 seats.

Here are a few pics for you rads lovers: http://acweber.com/cars/radical I believe there is even a slow lap around Laguna on that page.

Arnaud

 

Yes I have. And I've reached the point where I don't want to bother with the storage, maintenance, and trailering of a full-on race car. I like the convenience of driving to the track, taking loose items out of the car, and away we go! 75% of the fun with 5% of the effort and stress. Although I agree every enthusiast should drive a real race car in wheel-to-wheel competition at some point in their lives.

Gary

 

I bow to your superior experience, Ray, since I've never driven a CS, but I still can't get over how pleased I am with my garden-variety Modena at the track. Beatifully balanced, very responsive, sounds great...I'm going to have to cadge a ride in a CS soon.

Gary

 

Yes I have. And I've reached the point where I don't want to bother with the storage, maintenance, and trailering of a full-on race car. I like the convenience of driving to the track, taking loose items out of the car, and away we go! 75% of the fun with 5% of the effort and stress. Although I agree every enthusiast should drive a real race car in wheel-to-wheel competition at some point in their lives.
Great post Gary, you confirm my own suspicions, having not owned a race car. I enjoyed the Forumla Dodges I drove at Derek Daly's, and the Radicals I've been piloted in and piloted, but I know there is no real reason for me to buy a race car, even though it may be the next step up, as I have no intention of going racing at this point in my life. To own one, have to store it, it's trailor, spares, and deal with all the rarified up keep just to drag it to a few practice days seems absurd. Besides I know I don't have the perfect peripheral vision required for racing, I discovered that racing motorbikes when I was a kid. I could set good lap times on my own, but hated being around other people on the track.
I really enjoy the way we do our own open track days, when you can drive 150+ track miles in a day, and I'm sure we get far more open track time in a day than a racer would in a whole weekend at a club race level.

 

The problem in my experience is that the more you enjoy the track, the more you push your car and the more things break at the track. The first time you are stuck, or almost stuck, you start thinking about a trailer.

Another issue is tires since you are obviously limited to DOT models. I originally bought the C4S to drive to the track because I was tired of towing but then, I would hate to drive it with anything but slicks.

AW

 

Geeesh all age old questions. BTW Arnaud is REALLY fast in his 993 C4S. I have considered some of the same questions. Having taken my 993TT to the track and got hooked big time, I even bought a trailer for it. as M758 says I stand now between trying to make it a more focused track car or like many of you, buy a GT3, or a spec car like a 944 or Mazda. But here is an option. since most of you, given the cars you are considering, seem to have the means to do this. Formula Fords or Formula Continentals are sometimes less than $20K with trailer and spares. These are open wheeled cars that you can race in Vintage classes, mid 90's vintage race cars. You could race those and see if you like the race car 'feel' and if not turn it around and sell for not much less than you bought it for. It would be a real inexpensive way to dip the toe in the water as it were. If you dont like it then back to the Ferrari, Lotus, or Noble dealer.
Just a thought since I really enjoyed you all thinking out loud here.