GT2 I want to improve the precision of gear shifting
07-08-2024 | 05:27 PM
#31
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 53
From: USA
Sorry, not on Facebook much, if at all, but I’m here 
Just to try and answer some of the questions I saw above…the screen shot of my product page for the SRS and Slightly Short Shifters is accurate. I think the confusion may be with what shifter comes with what car.
As was stated above, the 996 Cup shifter is a “standard” 996 shift lever and housing with plain metal bushings, rather than the stock plastic/rubber bushings. My experience with that unit is that of course flex is reduced, but there’s A LOT of free play in the mechanism (i.e. dead zone) in all axes; at least with the used one that came in my 7.1GT3.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is identical to a “standard” 997 shifter, but has Cup style plain metal bushings rather than the standard plastic/rubber. So still susceptible to the “dead zone” wear referenced above. Think of this as a 996 Cup shifter with 15% shorter throw.
By just upgrading the stock shifter, you do leave a little on the table by not optimizing the main pivot point of the lever, as there is some lateral play in that interface. Hence why I developed the “slightly short shifter” options, which use large ball bearings at that pivot.
I do not recommend going any shorter than the 997 shifter throw on the GT transmissions, due to reasoning given above. GT transmission already has inherently shorter throw due to shorter selector rod length at the transmission, comparing to Carrera and Turbo transmissions. I personally use the “White” Slightly Short Shifter, which about splits the difference btwn 996 and 997 throw on my 7.1GT3. That feels “just right” for me and is less notchy. And you’re never going to shift faster than the synchros allow. That said, shift throw length is a personal preference. The only reason I’d go with a shorter throw lever is if I was wanting to mount the **** up higher closer to steering wheel for “better” ergonomics.
As for the cable debate, there are pros and cons. Do note that all cables are “metal”. The differences really come down to how they’re mounted to the transmission and chassis, cable thickness, and what the cable ends are made of. OEM uses rubber damped ends at transmission, plastic ends at shifter, and is mounted to chassis/trans via rubber-damped blocks. “Race” cables are hard mounted to the car and use metal ends.
I’m releasing my “Premium Shifter Cables” in a couple weeks that aim to extract the best of both worlds into one solution. Optimized tolerances and geometry to remove the extra play from the mechanism, upsized vs stock for added strength, and rubber damped in strategic points to reduce noise and deliver a smoother and more natural feel (i.e. less notchy).
I’ll keep an eye on this thread, so please feel free to post any shifting related questions and I’ll do my best to share the deep-dive knowledge I’ve acquired over time!
Just to try and answer some of the questions I saw above…the screen shot of my product page for the SRS and Slightly Short Shifters is accurate. I think the confusion may be with what shifter comes with what car.
As was stated above, the 996 Cup shifter is a “standard” 996 shift lever and housing with plain metal bushings, rather than the stock plastic/rubber bushings. My experience with that unit is that of course flex is reduced, but there’s A LOT of free play in the mechanism (i.e. dead zone) in all axes; at least with the used one that came in my 7.1GT3.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is identical to a “standard” 997 shifter, but has Cup style plain metal bushings rather than the standard plastic/rubber. So still susceptible to the “dead zone” wear referenced above. Think of this as a 996 Cup shifter with 15% shorter throw.
By just upgrading the stock shifter, you do leave a little on the table by not optimizing the main pivot point of the lever, as there is some lateral play in that interface. Hence why I developed the “slightly short shifter” options, which use large ball bearings at that pivot.
I do not recommend going any shorter than the 997 shifter throw on the GT transmissions, due to reasoning given above. GT transmission already has inherently shorter throw due to shorter selector rod length at the transmission, comparing to Carrera and Turbo transmissions. I personally use the “White” Slightly Short Shifter, which about splits the difference btwn 996 and 997 throw on my 7.1GT3. That feels “just right” for me and is less notchy. And you’re never going to shift faster than the synchros allow. That said, shift throw length is a personal preference. The only reason I’d go with a shorter throw lever is if I was wanting to mount the **** up higher closer to steering wheel for “better” ergonomics.
As for the cable debate, there are pros and cons. Do note that all cables are “metal”. The differences really come down to how they’re mounted to the transmission and chassis, cable thickness, and what the cable ends are made of. OEM uses rubber damped ends at transmission, plastic ends at shifter, and is mounted to chassis/trans via rubber-damped blocks. “Race” cables are hard mounted to the car and use metal ends.
I’m releasing my “Premium Shifter Cables” in a couple weeks that aim to extract the best of both worlds into one solution. Optimized tolerances and geometry to remove the extra play from the mechanism, upsized vs stock for added strength, and rubber damped in strategic points to reduce noise and deliver a smoother and more natural feel (i.e. less notchy).
I’ll keep an eye on this thread, so please feel free to post any shifting related questions and I’ll do my best to share the deep-dive knowledge I’ve acquired over time!
__________________
Comprehensive Shifting Solutions for your Porsche.
.
Comprehensive Shifting Solutions for your Porsche.
The following 9 users liked this post by Function-First:
2mAn (07-09-2024),
996love (07-09-2024),
bfr1992t (09-17-2024),
changster123 (07-08-2024),
engerman (07-08-2024),
and 4 others liked this post.
07-09-2024 | 02:39 PM
#32
Pro
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 547
Likes: 129
From: CA and Taipei
Sorry, not on Facebook much, if at all, but I’m here
Just to try and answer some of the questions I saw above…the screen shot of my product page for the SRS and Slightly Short Shifters is accurate. I think the confusion may be with what shifter comes with what car.
As was stated above, the 996 Cup shifter is a “standard” 996 shift lever and housing with plain metal bushings, rather than the stock plastic/rubber bushings. My experience with that unit is that of course flex is reduced, but there’s A LOT of free play in the mechanism (i.e. dead zone) in all axes; at least with the used one that came in my 7.1GT3.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is identical to a “standard” 997 shifter, but has Cup style plain metal bushings rather than the standard plastic/rubber. So still susceptible to the “dead zone” wear referenced above. Think of this as a 996 Cup shifter with 15% shorter throw.
By just upgrading the stock shifter, you do leave a little on the table by not optimizing the main pivot point of the lever, as there is some lateral play in that interface. Hence why I developed the “slightly short shifter” options, which use large ball bearings at that pivot.
I do not recommend going any shorter than the 997 shifter throw on the GT transmissions, due to reasoning given above. GT transmission already has inherently shorter throw due to shorter selector rod length at the transmission, comparing to Carrera and Turbo transmissions. I personally use the “White” Slightly Short Shifter, which about splits the difference btwn 996 and 997 throw on my 7.1GT3. That feels “just right” for me and is less notchy. And you’re never going to shift faster than the synchros allow. That said, shift throw length is a personal preference. The only reason I’d go with a shorter throw lever is if I was wanting to mount the **** up higher closer to steering wheel for “better” ergonomics.
As for the cable debate, there are pros and cons. Do note that all cables are “metal”. The differences really come down to how they’re mounted to the transmission and chassis, cable thickness, and what the cable ends are made of. OEM uses rubber damped ends at transmission, plastic ends at shifter, and is mounted to chassis/trans via rubber-damped blocks. “Race” cables are hard mounted to the car and use metal ends.
I’m releasing my “Premium Shifter Cables” in a couple weeks that aim to extract the best of both worlds into one solution. Optimized tolerances and geometry to remove the extra play from the mechanism, upsized vs stock for added strength, and rubber damped in strategic points to reduce noise and deliver a smoother and more natural feel (i.e. less notchy).
I’ll keep an eye on this thread, so please feel free to post any shifting related questions and I’ll do my best to share the deep-dive knowledge I’ve acquired over time!
Just to try and answer some of the questions I saw above…the screen shot of my product page for the SRS and Slightly Short Shifters is accurate. I think the confusion may be with what shifter comes with what car.
As was stated above, the 996 Cup shifter is a “standard” 996 shift lever and housing with plain metal bushings, rather than the stock plastic/rubber bushings. My experience with that unit is that of course flex is reduced, but there’s A LOT of free play in the mechanism (i.e. dead zone) in all axes; at least with the used one that came in my 7.1GT3.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is identical to a “standard” 997 shifter, but has Cup style plain metal bushings rather than the standard plastic/rubber. So still susceptible to the “dead zone” wear referenced above. Think of this as a 996 Cup shifter with 15% shorter throw.
By just upgrading the stock shifter, you do leave a little on the table by not optimizing the main pivot point of the lever, as there is some lateral play in that interface. Hence why I developed the “slightly short shifter” options, which use large ball bearings at that pivot.
I do not recommend going any shorter than the 997 shifter throw on the GT transmissions, due to reasoning given above. GT transmission already has inherently shorter throw due to shorter selector rod length at the transmission, comparing to Carrera and Turbo transmissions. I personally use the “White” Slightly Short Shifter, which about splits the difference btwn 996 and 997 throw on my 7.1GT3. That feels “just right” for me and is less notchy. And you’re never going to shift faster than the synchros allow. That said, shift throw length is a personal preference. The only reason I’d go with a shorter throw lever is if I was wanting to mount the **** up higher closer to steering wheel for “better” ergonomics.
As for the cable debate, there are pros and cons. Do note that all cables are “metal”. The differences really come down to how they’re mounted to the transmission and chassis, cable thickness, and what the cable ends are made of. OEM uses rubber damped ends at transmission, plastic ends at shifter, and is mounted to chassis/trans via rubber-damped blocks. “Race” cables are hard mounted to the car and use metal ends.
I’m releasing my “Premium Shifter Cables” in a couple weeks that aim to extract the best of both worlds into one solution. Optimized tolerances and geometry to remove the extra play from the mechanism, upsized vs stock for added strength, and rubber damped in strategic points to reduce noise and deliver a smoother and more natural feel (i.e. less notchy).
I’ll keep an eye on this thread, so please feel free to post any shifting related questions and I’ll do my best to share the deep-dive knowledge I’ve acquired over time!
07-09-2024 | 06:44 PM
#33
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 148
Likes: 69
Sorry, not on Facebook much, if at all, but I’m here
Just to try and answer some of the questions I saw above…the screen shot of my product page for the SRS and Slightly Short Shifters is accurate. I think the confusion may be with what shifter comes with what car.
As was stated above, the 996 Cup shifter is a “standard” 996 shift lever and housing with plain metal bushings, rather than the stock plastic/rubber bushings. My experience with that unit is that of course flex is reduced, but there’s A LOT of free play in the mechanism (i.e. dead zone) in all axes; at least with the used one that came in my 7.1GT3.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is identical to a “standard” 997 shifter, but has Cup style plain metal bushings rather than the standard plastic/rubber. So still susceptible to the “dead zone” wear referenced above. Think of this as a 996 Cup shifter with 15% shorter throw.
By just upgrading the stock shifter, you do leave a little on the table by not optimizing the main pivot point of the lever, as there is some lateral play in that interface. Hence why I developed the “slightly short shifter” options, which use large ball bearings at that pivot.
I do not recommend going any shorter than the 997 shifter throw on the GT transmissions, due to reasoning given above. GT transmission already has inherently shorter throw due to shorter selector rod length at the transmission, comparing to Carrera and Turbo transmissions. I personally use the “White” Slightly Short Shifter, which about splits the difference btwn 996 and 997 throw on my 7.1GT3. That feels “just right” for me and is less notchy. And you’re never going to shift faster than the synchros allow. That said, shift throw length is a personal preference. The only reason I’d go with a shorter throw lever is if I was wanting to mount the **** up higher closer to steering wheel for “better” ergonomics.
As for the cable debate, there are pros and cons. Do note that all cables are “metal”. The differences really come down to how they’re mounted to the transmission and chassis, cable thickness, and what the cable ends are made of. OEM uses rubber damped ends at transmission, plastic ends at shifter, and is mounted to chassis/trans via rubber-damped blocks. “Race” cables are hard mounted to the car and use metal ends.
I’m releasing my “Premium Shifter Cables” in a couple weeks that aim to extract the best of both worlds into one solution. Optimized tolerances and geometry to remove the extra play from the mechanism, upsized vs stock for added strength, and rubber damped in strategic points to reduce noise and deliver a smoother and more natural feel (i.e. less notchy).
I’ll keep an eye on this thread, so please feel free to post any shifting related questions and I’ll do my best to share the deep-dive knowledge I’ve acquired over time!
Just to try and answer some of the questions I saw above…the screen shot of my product page for the SRS and Slightly Short Shifters is accurate. I think the confusion may be with what shifter comes with what car.
As was stated above, the 996 Cup shifter is a “standard” 996 shift lever and housing with plain metal bushings, rather than the stock plastic/rubber bushings. My experience with that unit is that of course flex is reduced, but there’s A LOT of free play in the mechanism (i.e. dead zone) in all axes; at least with the used one that came in my 7.1GT3.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is identical to a “standard” 997 shifter, but has Cup style plain metal bushings rather than the standard plastic/rubber. So still susceptible to the “dead zone” wear referenced above. Think of this as a 996 Cup shifter with 15% shorter throw.
By just upgrading the stock shifter, you do leave a little on the table by not optimizing the main pivot point of the lever, as there is some lateral play in that interface. Hence why I developed the “slightly short shifter” options, which use large ball bearings at that pivot.
I do not recommend going any shorter than the 997 shifter throw on the GT transmissions, due to reasoning given above. GT transmission already has inherently shorter throw due to shorter selector rod length at the transmission, comparing to Carrera and Turbo transmissions. I personally use the “White” Slightly Short Shifter, which about splits the difference btwn 996 and 997 throw on my 7.1GT3. That feels “just right” for me and is less notchy. And you’re never going to shift faster than the synchros allow. That said, shift throw length is a personal preference. The only reason I’d go with a shorter throw lever is if I was wanting to mount the **** up higher closer to steering wheel for “better” ergonomics.
As for the cable debate, there are pros and cons. Do note that all cables are “metal”. The differences really come down to how they’re mounted to the transmission and chassis, cable thickness, and what the cable ends are made of. OEM uses rubber damped ends at transmission, plastic ends at shifter, and is mounted to chassis/trans via rubber-damped blocks. “Race” cables are hard mounted to the car and use metal ends.
I’m releasing my “Premium Shifter Cables” in a couple weeks that aim to extract the best of both worlds into one solution. Optimized tolerances and geometry to remove the extra play from the mechanism, upsized vs stock for added strength, and rubber damped in strategic points to reduce noise and deliver a smoother and more natural feel (i.e. less notchy).
I’ll keep an eye on this thread, so please feel free to post any shifting related questions and I’ll do my best to share the deep-dive knowledge I’ve acquired over time!
The following users liked this post:
philrob1 (07-10-2024)
07-11-2024 | 09:28 PM
#35
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,604
Likes: 361
From: Adelaide, Australia
The following users liked this post:
changster123 (07-11-2024)
07-11-2024 | 10:54 PM
#36
Pro
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 547
Likes: 129
From: CA and Taipei
I run 80A engine and trans mounts in my BMW and I think it's completely fine. A single mass flywheel is way worse than 80A mounts as far as NVH goes.
07-12-2024 | 12:47 AM
#37
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,604
Likes: 361
From: Adelaide, Australia
Yeah I think a good compromise would be something like FF's semi solid engine mounts (uses OEM mounts then fills it), FF trans inserts (80A), and this new cable.
I run 80A engine and trans mounts in my BMW and I think it's completely fine. A single mass flywheel is way worse than 80A mounts as far as NVH goes.
I run 80A engine and trans mounts in my BMW and I think it's completely fine. A single mass flywheel is way worse than 80A mounts as far as NVH goes.
The following users liked this post:
changster123 (07-12-2024)
07-12-2024 | 02:23 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 501
From: UK
I don't agree with you, OEM gear shift cables have moving elements, so changing gears is not pleasant for me. I will not install the Numeric gear lever because I think it is unnecessary. However, I will install a gear lever like in the GT3 and metal cables. I'm currently on vacation, when I come back I'll take a closer look at the OEM cables, maybe I'll be able to modify them to those in the 996 cup.
For what it’s worth, the standard cables are more than adequate if they and all the other components: shifter assembly, engine mounts, transmission mounts, detent spring, synchro hubs/baulk rings etc, are all in tip-top condition.
There is little you can do to the stock cables to improve them, beyond replacing the cheap plastic ends/adjusters that attach them to the fore/aft and side to side control elements on the shifter assembly, with more durable items.
Beyond that you can replace them with the uprated Numeric items or the new evolution that Function First have seemingly developed..
The following users liked this post:
changster123 (07-12-2024)
07-12-2024 | 08:44 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 817
Likes: 349
From: VA
However, I also have a new 997 trans mount, new-ish 964 RS engine mounts, and a relatively recently rebuilt trans, so maybe all that plays together as Atgani is saying. Maybe it’s more than just the cables contributing to play?
Last edited by Sirenty; 07-12-2024 at 08:56 AM.
07-13-2024 | 04:33 PM
#40
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 642
Likes: 75
Where I said i want short throw? Btw. I would never use oem cables.
You don’t agree with what ? That wanting a ridiculously short throw makes little or no sense on a GT car (which as others have said already have shorter shift levers on the transmission itself) or that wanting a more precise shift with less free play is preferable, and what most individuals actually really want ?
For what it’s worth, the standard cables are more than adequate if they and all the other components: shifter assembly, engine mounts, transmission mounts, detent spring, synchro hubs/baulk rings etc, are all in tip-top condition.
There is little you can do to the stock cables to improve them, beyond replacing the cheap plastic ends/adjusters that attach them to the fore/aft and side to side control elements on the shifter assembly, with more durable items.
Beyond that you can replace them with the uprated Numeric items or the new evolution that Function First have seemingly developed..
For what it’s worth, the standard cables are more than adequate if they and all the other components: shifter assembly, engine mounts, transmission mounts, detent spring, synchro hubs/baulk rings etc, are all in tip-top condition.
There is little you can do to the stock cables to improve them, beyond replacing the cheap plastic ends/adjusters that attach them to the fore/aft and side to side control elements on the shifter assembly, with more durable items.
Beyond that you can replace them with the uprated Numeric items or the new evolution that Function First have seemingly developed..
Last edited by 997 tt/rs; 07-13-2024 at 04:35 PM.
07-16-2024 | 12:39 AM
#41
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,342
Likes: 151
From: Carlisle, MA
Y'all do realize that short throws adds stress / wear to the syncros, which are $$$ to replace. I guess I recommend staying with the 997.2 shifter or the kit that replaces the plastic bits with metal bits - I forget the brand, unless you are trying to solve a specific problem.
Ray
Ray
07-16-2024 | 05:02 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 666
Likes: 528
From: SoCal
@Function-First I already have a 997 shifter in mine, but was recommended to change cables soon so Im looking at replacing with a set of yours. Does it make sense to also replace anything else at the same time. Im not looking for a shorter throw.
also, I sent you a PM can you reply to that also?
also, I sent you a PM can you reply to that also?
08-07-2024 | 06:50 AM
#43
Racer
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 409
Likes: 119
From: Hong Kong
really curious what Function First is developing for cable replacement, and then Numeric for a less-intense version of the current cables if I'm reading it right
Too bad I might not be able to wait for those premium cables from Numeric ... probably need to swap out cables soon
Too bad I might not be able to wait for those premium cables from Numeric ... probably need to swap out cables soon
Last edited by KingSize.Hamster; 08-07-2024 at 07:12 AM.