What do you use for engine oil?
07-20-2017, 07:41 PM
#76
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm genuinely interested and I'd think we all are! I know that extended change intervals and overheating, etc., cause engine failure issues but irrespective of that, will DT40 in a stock engine really reduce the failure risk?
07-20-2017, 07:45 PM
#77
Race Director
Someone more intelligent than I am can explain how the additive loads can reduce wear and perform other seemingly magical feats. The various additives do some amazing sh*t. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_additive
07-20-2017, 07:50 PM
#78
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Someone more intelligent than I am can explain how the additive loads can reduce wear and perform other seemingly magical feats. The various additives do some amazing sh*t. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_additive
07-20-2017, 07:55 PM
#79
Race Director
There is one passage in that Wikipedia article I found especially enlightening (assuming it's true and not hyperbole):
"Nearly all commercial motor oils contain additives, whether the oils are synthetic or petroleum based. Essentially, only the American Petroleum Institute (API) Service SA motor oils have no additives, and they are therefore incapable of protecting modern engines."
If we accept the concept that a modern engine's life can be drastically shortened if the oil does not have the correct additives as truth, it seems a logical extension that an additive package could be developed to help ameliorate known issues with a specific engine.
"Nearly all commercial motor oils contain additives, whether the oils are synthetic or petroleum based. Essentially, only the American Petroleum Institute (API) Service SA motor oils have no additives, and they are therefore incapable of protecting modern engines."
If we accept the concept that a modern engine's life can be drastically shortened if the oil does not have the correct additives as truth, it seems a logical extension that an additive package could be developed to help ameliorate known issues with a specific engine.
07-20-2017, 07:58 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
Oil, is better than no oil. We can all agree with this much.
Now, not that the courts get it right 100% of the time, there are many documented cases of additive claims not being proven. Slick 50, STP etc...
Please put oil in your 996. Motor oil is better than cooking oil. Although I have read that Copper Tone can produce an extra 30HP for a very short period of time in a 996TT.
Now, not that the courts get it right 100% of the time, there are many documented cases of additive claims not being proven. Slick 50, STP etc...
Please put oil in your 996. Motor oil is better than cooking oil. Although I have read that Copper Tone can produce an extra 30HP for a very short period of time in a 996TT.
07-20-2017, 08:00 PM
#82
Race Director
07-20-2017, 08:02 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Oh, I miss read the label. External use only.
Please disregard use in 996TT.
Please disregard use in 996TT.
07-20-2017, 08:42 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
Swepco, yo!
07-20-2017, 10:17 PM
#85
Interesting:
For the inquiring minds that haven't already found it -->
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...mp-system.html
It was running 0W-40, as stated in the post. Mobil 1 0w-40 gives the lowest oil pressure readings of any oil I tested, and this particular engine is on the low side of normal. It probably has slightly large main bearing clearance.
The Cayman oil pressure was taken at the valve cover, from the normal oil pressure sender location. On my Boxsters, I measure the pressure at the oil cooler, which typically reads about 1 bar higher. When I post a data screenshot, I specify which one, if it is relevant. I think each location provides useful and conclusive data.
The idiot light comes on at a very low pressure. I am not sure of the exact number but it is under .5 bar. Since the oil pump creates this much or more pressure pumping pure air (at least at rpm > 4000) the idiot light is never going to alert anybody to oil pressure fluctuations.
My long experience with various engines leads me to conclude that most of the time, the brand of oil matters very little, and the weight of that oil matters even less. Engines that receive an uninterrupted supply of oil, even at a very low pressure, seem to last forever. Engines that do not, fail regardless of oil brand, weight, or temperature.
That said, everything in racing takes place in that last 1% of performance, so very small things can matter. I use Mobil 1 (the weight depends on expected oil temp) in my dry sump engines, but I don't recommend it for wet sump M96 engines that are used on track.
Chris Cervelli
Cervelli Technical Service
The Cayman oil pressure was taken at the valve cover, from the normal oil pressure sender location. On my Boxsters, I measure the pressure at the oil cooler, which typically reads about 1 bar higher. When I post a data screenshot, I specify which one, if it is relevant. I think each location provides useful and conclusive data.
The idiot light comes on at a very low pressure. I am not sure of the exact number but it is under .5 bar. Since the oil pump creates this much or more pressure pumping pure air (at least at rpm > 4000) the idiot light is never going to alert anybody to oil pressure fluctuations.
My long experience with various engines leads me to conclude that most of the time, the brand of oil matters very little, and the weight of that oil matters even less. Engines that receive an uninterrupted supply of oil, even at a very low pressure, seem to last forever. Engines that do not, fail regardless of oil brand, weight, or temperature.
That said, everything in racing takes place in that last 1% of performance, so very small things can matter. I use Mobil 1 (the weight depends on expected oil temp) in my dry sump engines, but I don't recommend it for wet sump M96 engines that are used on track.
Chris Cervelli
Cervelli Technical Service
For the inquiring minds that haven't already found it -->
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...mp-system.html
07-21-2017, 05:08 PM
#87
Rennlist Member
Blackstone Labs attempts to answer this very question using their data. The results? It pretty much doesn't matter which oil you use...
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f64139...Aug_17_ENG.pdf
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f64139...Aug_17_ENG.pdf
07-21-2017, 07:32 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
Blackstone Labs attempts to answer this very question using their data. The results? It pretty much doesn't matter which oil you use...
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f64139...Aug_17_ENG.pdf
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f64139...Aug_17_ENG.pdf
07-21-2017, 07:43 PM
#89
The true mindf*ck of this whole discussion is that Blackstone's conclusion can be perfectly valid for the engines they monitored and completely invalid for engines they didn't review. You'd need some metadata and a good sample size to draw any serious conclusions about the m96.
It's easy to assume things that aren't appropriate if you don't put a fence around what you truly know. If the guys that live & breathe m96s and m96 racing say something, it'll take a lot of data for me to go against their word.
It's easy to assume things that aren't appropriate if you don't put a fence around what you truly know. If the guys that live & breathe m96s and m96 racing say something, it'll take a lot of data for me to go against their word.
07-21-2017, 08:58 PM
#90
Race Director
Yeah, but "their word" is purely anecdotal. None have been running race cars with multiple oil types, then logging wear and failure rates. Raby, if anyone, prolly has the only empirical data.