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Put the rest of the accessories minus the A/C pump on and also the engine support frame. Packed the oil pump with Vaseline for suction. Installed RMS, flywheel, clutch and tranny. Engine under car partially lifted until I bleed the clutch.
This para-cord worked great to hold the flywheel to tighten the bolts. Used the points on the bolts to do the 120 degree stretch after torque, two points equals 120 degree turn.
Tool I made for installing RMS. It worked, but it took a while. It doesn't look like it but the bottom was milled flat. Mark is at 13mm for depth. To be honest it's hard to make it go in straight and to gauge the depth, These self made tools aren't the exact diameter so the don't push exactly on the seals outside edge. Even with the tool off, the seal depth is hard to measure from the crank face as the seal is not flat across its cross section.
Transmission went on pretty easy, I had numbered the bolts 1-8 so no worries. I used anti-seize, so I quit trying to set the stated torque as I could tell it was not accurate and was too much.
Corrosion from leaking heat-exchanger. Water was going into the bell housing.
Just high enough in today so I can reconnect the clutch hose and bleed it.
Converted oil filter bypass to oil NO bypass for break in, maybe longer.
So I put the motor all the way in two days ago. Once in, I filled it with fluids and yikes saw some liquid dripping! Luckily it was just the bottom right large coolant hose manifold that was not tight. Tightened it down and then no leaks anywhere. Then exhaust on, all connectors connected, double checked everything, re-read Jake Raby's advise on first start, and then turned the key on then off 5 times to prime injectors. Sat there for a second, and then moved the key all the way to start......... There was fear.
Cranked for 5-10 seconds, saw tach just bouncing but no oil pressure. Cranked 5-10 secs again, same result. Cranked third time, sputter! Fourth time pumping the pedal sputter, sputter light off! Shut it down after 4 seconds just as oil pressure started to move. 5th crank starts right up and oil pressure goes right to 5+..... Happy!
But it sounded like a diesel motor.. #1 bank/head making a racket.
This link doesn't do it justice how bad it sounded, horrible thoughts go through my mind.. It sound like every lifter is stuck but who knows. So many things I have doubts about just because of lack of experience. I let it run a bit to check fluids and for leaks(none), lots of smoke from engine outside. Then I shut it off and go inside.. Pretty dejected. Yesterday I talk to a few people and show them the video and everyone says stuck lifter. I put straight 30w break in oil in it to start, so maybe it has to warm up and thin out to pump up my reused lifters?
So today, after much worrying, I decide to restart it, let it heat up and see what happens when the oil thins out.Well after 2 minutes the noise starts to fade in and out until it's gone!!! Totaly!!! https://photos.app.goo.gl/XL3JrDkdLd9wTdcZ6
New Lifter Problems:
There are some extensive discussions of this subject..Much detail on pre-lubing new lifters ,testing and comparing used lifters. The same design of lifter is used in many other vehicles.Specifics may vary slightly(but how exactly?) but certainly the test/performance issues are the same. Much of the info is contradictory unless you eliminate the amateurs (like me).
My experience with 2 sets of new lifters and 1 set of used lifters with multiple tests and in-engine trials is that the subject is opaque. For example I replaced one set of new lifters with the correct OEM part number after less than 100 miles because of a slight ticking from 2 cylinders iirc. The replacement set was better but not perfect -initially. After well over 100 miles but less than 1000 miles they became silent. I have no clue why ! So experience says be patient and gentle if ticking occurs with new lifters. .Deep knowledge of the subject (I do not have it) says to prepare the lifters correctly. I followed 'correct' procedure but my experience was as above.It is a pity INA does not participate on this Forum !
So I put the motor all the way in two days ago. Once in, I filled it with fluids and yikes saw some liquid dripping! Luckily it was just the bottom right large coolant hose manifold that was not tight. Tightened it down and then no leaks anywhere. Then exhaust on, all connectors connected, double checked everything, re-read Jake Raby's advise on first start, and then turned the key on then off 5 times to prime injectors. Sat there for a second, and then moved the key all the way to start......... There was fear lol.
Cranked for 5-10 seconds, saw tach just bouncing but no oil pressure. Cranked 5-10 secs again, same result. Cranked third time, sputter! Fourth time pumping the pedal sputter, sputter light off! Shut it down after 4 seconds just as oil pressure started to move. 5th crank starts right up and oil pressure goes right to 5+..... Happy!
But it sounded like a diesel motor.. #1 bank/head making a racket.
This link doesn't do it justice how bad it sounded, horrible thoughts go through my mind.. It sound like every lifter is stuck but who knows. So many things I have doubts about just because of lack of experience. I let it run a bit to check fluids and for leaks(none), lots of smoke from engine outside. Then I shut it off and go inside.. Pretty dejected. Yesterday I talk to a few people and show them the video and everyone says stuck lifter. I put straight 30w break in oil in it to start, so maybe it has to warm up and thin out to pump up my reused lifters?
So today, after much worrying, I decide to restart it, let it heat up and see what happens when the oil thins out.Well after 5 minutes the noise starts to fade in and out until it's gone!!! Totaly!!! https://photos.app.goo.gl/XL3JrDkdLd9wTdcZ6
Super happy!! Still have to finish connecting the axles, shift linkage, cross members and put tires on before I can drive it but it's ready to go...!
I had the same experience on first start-up (didn't replace lifters etc. though). It sounded terrible, and was a little scary (like - Holy crap I totally F'd this thing up!), but thinking about it just told me "relax and let it run a little"... It started to smooth out and quiet down within a minute or two (longest minute or two in my life). Make sure you really check all of your coolant connections for leaks at full operating temp/pressure - I had a few leaks that I needed to tighten up the clamps on. Good luck with 'er!
I'm having lifter related issues on the engine for my 996.1, (which is getting rebuilt), bought the INA replacement ones and two failed after start up, then another 4, the supplier has replaced them all (like for like). Going back in again for second go around.
After failure the lifter can be pushed in by hand (apparently).
I'm having lifter related issues on the engine for my 996.1, (which is getting rebuilt), bought the INA replacement ones and two failed after start up, then another 4, the supplier has replaced them all (like for like). Going back in again for second go around.
After failure the lifter can be pushed in by hand (apparently).
Doesn't sound like fun. That was one of my big dilemas, what parts to get new and what ones to reuse. I kept the old lifters mostly because I knew they were working, and also because they are expensive to replace.
I also reused all my sensors. I figured why replace a known quantity with an unknown. I just kept thinking what I would do if I replaced the working oil pressure sensor and got a bad new one? That would be a bad way to start things off!
I've now driven 50 miles and no codes so so far so good... Pretty curious what my cam deviations are but no Durametric.
New Lifter Problems:
There are some extensive discussions of this subject..Much detail on pre-lubing new lifters ,testing and comparing used lifters. The same design of lifter is used in many other vehicles.Specifics may vary slightly(but how exactly?) but certainly the test/performance issues are the same. Much of the info is contradictory unless you eliminate the amateurs (like me).
My experience with 2 sets of new lifters and 1 set of used lifters with multiple tests and in-engine trials is that the subject is opaque. For example I replaced one set of new lifters with the correct OEM part number after less than 100 miles because of a slight ticking from 2 cylinders iirc. The replacement set was better but not perfect -initially. After well over 100 miles but less than 1000 miles they became silent. I have no clue why ! So experience says be patient and gentle if ticking occurs with new lifters. .Deep knowledge of the subject (I do not have it) says to prepare the lifters correctly. I followed 'correct' procedure but my experience was as above.It is a pity INA does not participate on this Forum !
Hey Schnell, just wondering when you looked at the problem lifters on replacement, was there any damage visible on them or the camshaft from not being properly pressurized? Any marks on the lobes or on the lifter top?
I'm having lifter related issues on the engine for my 996.1, (which is getting rebuilt), bought the INA replacement ones and two failed after start up, then another 4, the supplier has replaced them all (like for like). Going back in again for second go around.
After failure the lifter can be pushed in by hand (apparently).
Just an update. Almost 1500 miles now with no issues. No oil burn, no leaks, no CEL's, no codes! Real happy. Dropped pan at 500 mile oil change, totally clean except one 1/2" piece of dribond sealent on oil pickup screen, and a small amount of gray slime on magnetic plug.
About $3000.00 for everything including LN ceramic dual row installed at LN while having the IMS pinned there. Probably spent $200.00 in new tools including the Chinese timing/wrist pin tool. Did everything completely by myself.
New:
LN ceramic IMSB and pinned shaft
Low Temp Thermostat
ARP rod bolts and all other factory stretch to degrees bolts
Cam Chains
Main and vario cam chain guides
AOS
Heat exchanger
Seals
Scavenge pumps
Injectors cleaned and rebuilt. They tested good before the rebuild when received by the shop.
Be prepared to spend hours cleaning....... Carbon, gasket residue, Dribond, etc..... For hours...
Thought about driving it like this for awhile. Looks kinda cool.
Congrats!! Very good job on a frugal $3k repair that ended up better than it was before failure !! I believe you had a thrust bearing failure? Goes to show that a thrust bearing failure need not to be the end of the world !! Hope you get many more trouble free happy miles !!
Just read this whole thread. Great job BTW. I am curious about what the root cause of you problem was. Was it the thrust bearing?
Thanks
Dave
Kinda hard to say. There was nothing obvious after very carefully looking at all the surface that might rub and make non magnetic particles. I think the most likely culprit was the scavenge pumps wearing due to damage from metal left over from the engines original assembly. I think some small aluminum particles would be normal also. Pretty obvious quality control was weak during assembly when you see what was still found in the engine 20 years and 31,000 mile later.
This corroded machining chip came out of a head while I was blowing out the passageways during cleaning. Cracked head in the waiting.
This one was in the pan, It is just part of the casting that was left over inside the engine on assembly.
And they used this IMS flange in the car, even though it was an incomplete casting before machining.
08-12-2018, 10:51 PM
