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There is some good advice in this thread. If you're buying a 996, even the newest is 12 years old by now. Things break, things wear out, etc. I sold my 996 initially because the maintenance costs were increasing each year. I am the type of person who wants everything to openate as the manufacturer intended, so I did all the recommended maintenance. My car had about 140K miles on the odometer when I sold it. I've also owned two Saabs (a 2003 9-5 Linear sport wagon and a 2004 9-5 Aero 6MT). The Aero was great; it required virtually no repairs during the time that I owned it. The Linear was a nightmare. It had electrical problems, and many more. Part of your experience with a used 996 will be picking the right car.
Tires seem to be $1000 - $1800 depending on quality and the rears don't last very long due to the weight & demands of being a r/r sports car. Brake pads are a few hundred but easy to DIY. Motor mounts age & need replacing around every 10 years it seems ($200ish & easy DIY). Oil I use is a little over $100 per change + a $5 filter, again an easy DIY. I have an OBII scanner to monitor the sensors & read codes. It's helped me reduce the need for indy labor by diagnosing and fixing some things on my own.
I bought a 71k mile car in good shape & then spent a good $5-8k on preventative & regular maintenance in the following year, which covered 11k miles. My strategy was/is to buy quality up front and be aggressive on maintenance to hopefully reduce the risk of a major mechanical issue. We'll find out in the coming years if my approach was worthwhile or foolish, but in the meantime, the 996 is a ton of fun to drive. I grew up driving manual Saabs and the 996 reminds me of that connected, analog drive-feel every day. Only the 996 is lower to the ground & much faster with a more sleek design. I'm hopelessly addicted
the car that started the madness even looks like the 996 -->
Mine was 89k in 03. Last time I looked (2 weeks ago) at 911s at the dealer I didn't see any below 100k on the showroom floor. That base price may be used in advertisements but I suspect it's very, very lacking in features (maybe it doesn't include wheels and tires)? Seriously though - can anyone point me to a brand new 911 for sale for 65? I'd imagine that would canabalize the Boxster sales - which seemed to run in the 70-90k range when I was looking at window stickers.
On the topic of super car - several industry publications referred to the 996 as a super car (including I believe the original top gear review). Super car isn't really strictly defined anywhere and maybe by late 90s standards it made sense. In today's numbers it's not quite accurate (IMHO). At the very least the 996 turbo was a super car of the day.
You have a C4s, probably with a few options. Yes, options on a base carrera are minimal, but such is life.
As for your post about $65k, that was the price in 2000, not the price now, I figured that was clear.
A ferrari F50 is a supercar in the late 90s, not a carrera. never was, never will be.
^^ secret upside to 996 ownership: arguing with strangers on the internet about academic interpretations of words that don't have much bearing on the experience.
Now, when it comes to big things going bad is where things start deviating massively for Porsche from average cars. Your Saab's 2.0 motor blows, you can get one for under $2k, there are plenty of sub $1k turbo saab motors for sale on Ebay. When your Porsche motor goes, it is $10k minimum. Same math applies to almost all of the other major parts; look up the prices for 996 headlights.
Viggen is a 2.3. Is that a used motor from a wreck, a rebuilt factory spec motor, or a performance motor? I suspect it's a factory spec rebuild, in which case it's only about $3k more than a Viggen motor... and if I do end up rebuilding my Viggen's motor, it won't be to factory specs. I priced out my plans to rebuild the car if the engine goes to about $25k.
Originally Posted by Schnell Gelb
The XJR you mentioned is very familiar to me. The Porsche is much less robust,more difficult and expensive to work on in my experience.
Huh? This is contrary to every bit of advice I've ever heard.
Originally Posted by ejdoherty911
There are no cheap 911s. You either pay up front or you pay later. I would say basic maintenance, if you perform the work yourself, is quite manageable. But still, everything does cost more. Oil change DIY is going to cost rock bottom $80. I use DT40 so my minimum cost is 110ish. Once you need a few things beyond the basics that you either can't do or prefer not to do (water pump, AOS, suspension, radiator flush) that's when you quickly see bills from the dealer in the thousands of dollars. No matter what 996 you decide to purchase do you have $5,000 in cash ready to burn without any regrets whatsoever? If the answer is no, do not purchase a 996 or any 911 really.
These costs just don't scare me. Oil change on my Viggen is $80 and I do them every $3k (Synth Blend). Whether or not I have $5k to burn comfortably is entirely dependent on the sale price of the car, but I don't intend to go for it unless I do.
Originally Posted by charlieaf92
10qt of synthetic oil per change (every 5k miles if you follow best practices recommended on the forums)
I ran over a nail - ruined rear tire. Had to replace both - $800
Front brake job parts only DIY (didn't replace rotors) $400 ... had issues with dampers frozen into pistons + $400 for new pistons and fluid to bleed system
New idler pulley? $110
Engine mounts (notorious for failing) $170 each
10qt? Does the tranny get changed with the engine? This seems quite high for the size of the engine.
$800 for rear tires? This I don't understand, Conti DWs run $850 installed on all 4 corners from my tire shop of choice. I've heard tell of some really weird Porsche tire requirements, is this what I'm missing?
Brakes sound expensive, but then again in the Viggen world they're run as the upgrade option and they're just as expensive on a different car. Better brakes means a bit more cost.
Originally Posted by TonyTwoBags
Tires seem to be $1000 - $1800 depending on quality and the rears don't last very long due to the weight & demands of being a r/r sports car. Brake pads are a few hundred but easy to DIY. Motor mounts age & need replacing around every 10 years it seems ($200ish & easy DIY). Oil I use is a little over $100 per change + a $5 filter, again an easy DIY. I have an OBII scanner to monitor the sensors & read codes. It's helped me reduce the need for indy labor by diagnosing and fixing some things on my own.
Same question about the tire costs. These are up there with Viper tires, yet I'm seeing quotes for $850 installed for the 18s on the car I'm considering.
I'm plenty capable with a wrench, but I just moved away from my garage and tools. I have 3-4 OBDII readers, for example... but I'll probably use a local shop to do most of the work.
10qt? Does the tranny get changed with the engine? This seems quite high for the size of the engine.
$800 for rear tires? This I don't understand, Conti DWs run $850 installed on all 4 corners from my tire shop of choice. I've heard tell of some really weird Porsche tire requirements, is this what I'm missing?
Brakes sound expensive, but then again in the Viggen world they're run as the upgrade option and they're just as expensive on a different car. Better brakes means a bit more cost.
Same question about the tire costs. These are up there with Viper tires, yet I'm seeing quotes for $850 installed for the 18s on the car I'm considering.
I'm plenty capable with a wrench, but I just moved away from my garage and tools. I have 3-4 OBDII readers, for example... but I'll probably use a local shop to do most of the work.
Thanks all for the input!
Yeah it takes that much oil. I put about 9.5 in during my oil change last week. I believe its because its horizontally opposed vs. a V configuration - but someone else may be able to clarify. Don't get me started on transmission fluid... I believe it is $40 / quart and I used 6 quarts between the transaxle and the front differential - its basically a one time change if you ever do it though.
One thing to clarify is that my rear tires are wider because its a C4S. They're 295 + the previous owner added 19" wheels from a 997. It came with Pilot Super Sport from the previous owner and from what I've read they're good, so I stuck with them. After mount/balance it was just shy of $800 for both. $850 for all 4 seems low, even on smaller wheels - I want to say I was in the $1100 range on my last car for all 4 Eagle F1s on 18"s. I guess it depends on the tire though.
Apply the 'better brakes means a bit more cost' philosophy to every component of the car.
I'm not trying to steer you away by any means. I love my 911 so far - but it definitely isn't a cheap car to own.
996>viggen, with that being said, why cry when you can saab. What do you think would be more expensive to own, a yugo or an ice cream truck? I think I can offset some of my costs by selling some Chinese knock off good humor bars out of the back to the ice cream truck. I've changed my own oil before so I'm not worried about that
996>viggen, with that being said, why cry when you can saab. What do you think would be more expensive to own, a yugo or an ice cream truck? I think I can offset some of my costs by selling some Chinese knock off good humor bars out of the back to the ice cream truck. I've changed my own oil before so I'm not worried about that
One of my biggest concerns with picking up a 996 is the cost of maintenance. Now I'm no stranger to high maintenance costs, as an owner of a Saab 9-3 Viggen... but I'm still afraid that the Porsche is going to surprise me with costs that I'm not prepared for.
The car I'm looking at has 185k, which is a lot. I'm probably going to do a clutch, flywheel, IMSB, and RMS all at once when I pick it up, to the tune of about $3700. The goal being to drive it for 2-5 years with basic maintenance.
My question is, will the basic maintenance kill me? How do 996 maintenance costs stack up against say, Saab, BMW, or Subaru for those of you who have owned both, or any other makes.
I've found my 996 to be pretty comparable to other German cars in terms of maintenance. Before this car I've owned about 15 Audis and a couple BMWs. Consumable parts like brakes and tires for the Porsche are virtually identical to something like an Audi, because you can get them from the same suppliers and they're similar construction. Nothing exotic about them. Suspension and axle parts are similar. Ok yes if you buy the parts that say "Porsche" on the box, they cost 3x as much as the OE supplier part that is identical. But it sounds like you're smart enough to figure that out!!
All the noise about oil changes strikes me as pretty odd; a filter is like $10 and you need 10 quarts of oil. Yes, it's 5 more quarts of oil than a 4-cylinder VW, but you can get a 5-quart bottle of reasonable oil for $25, and you only need to change it once a year, so who cares? The additional cost is less than dinner for two at a bad chain restaurant! Tell your wife Valentine's Day at Olive Garden is off this year, and you'll come out ahead
Body and interior parts are hit or miss. Some things are ungodly expensive (e.g. a new shift **** is hundreds of dollars), while other parts are unbelievably cheap (e.g. I got a pair of GT3 brake scoops for $7, and a new interior dome light lens for less than a dollar).
The big fear, like others have said, is a major mechanical failure in the engine or transmission. Those would be big dollars. And if you need a technician to do work for you, finding a competent one will be difficult, and paying them will be expensive.
So basically I think if you want to keep it for a few years, and you buy a well-maintained one, you can expect it to be really cheap to own. This is not an exotic car where an oil change and tuneup is measured in thousands of dollars. But if you want to keep it forever, or if you buy a basket case, eventually something really expensive is probably going to happen.
My positions is that a car like this HAS to be considered disposable. If you can't afford to just push it off a cliff and forget about it, you shouldn't buy it. That's what I keep telling myself while I worry about whether something on mine is going to break!! If your number one priority is cheap maintenance and operating cost, obviously there are better options out there, but clearly people who buy cars like 996s and Saabs are looking for something other than a reliable beige appliance.
Haven't had a Viggin, but I've owned a 2000 540i that I drove for 145,000 miles and an '86 Mercedes 190E that I drove 195,000 miles, both from new.
Neither car required much more than oil & filter changes every 3000 miles and following the manufacturer's recommended service.
When I bought my 2002 Cab from my son-in-law a year ago (who bought it new), I had it gone completely through by a great mechanic for $8500. It drives like new and I drive it every day. It had 60,000 miles on it when I bought it and I've put on 8,000 miles over the past year with zero problems. If you buy a Cab, be sure to run that top up and down often. You'll have fewer problems if you do!
For 23 years of my life, I flew airplanes for the USAF as a Command Pilot (Lockheed C-141 Starlifters). What you hated to see was a "newly refreshed" plane right out of two months in the service dock just before you headed out to fly to Antarctica or somewhere. In short, planes are designed to perform properly when they are FLOWN and not designed to sit on the ground.
Cars are no different. If you get your 996, drive it as often as you can, keep clean fluids in it, and prepare to enjoy a wonderful experience. Here's a pic of my cab taken in Pescadero, CA on famous Highway 1. As noted above, these ARE Supercars:
All the noise about oil changes strikes me as pretty odd; a filter is like $10 and you need 10 quarts of oil. Yes, it's 5 more quarts of oil than a 4-cylinder VW, but you can get a 5-quart bottle of reasonable oil for $25, and you only need to change it once a year, so who cares? The additional cost is less than dinner for two at a bad chain restaurant! Tell your wife Valentine's Day at Olive Garden is off this year, and you'll come out ahead .
Lol. I'm not concerned, just surprised. My old truck had a 5.9L V8 and only took about 5qt. 10qt is still well under my current truck's 13qt capacity. But you're right, in my head I was comparing it to my WRX and Viggen's 5qts each (2.0L H4 and 2.3L I4).
These threads crack me up. The last regular 996 in the US is a model year 2004. Find me a cheap to maintain car from 2004 that you would actually want to drive that doesn't have major deferred maintenance or cosmetic issues. My 1999 F-150 rusted apart in my driveway (the 996 hasn't).
Comparing anything to a Saab is crazy. Saab is no more. You can go to any Porsche dealer in the world and get spare parts for a 996 (at ridiculous prices and questionable experience on a 996) but it's possible. Not so with a Saab. Good luck when a soccer mom hits your Scandinavian dream in the Whole Foods.
My 996 is roughly comparable to my 993 in terms of maintenance costs, which is to say not cheap. If money is an option buy a different car. The Porsche will be more to maintain than most, but less than a true exotic. It pains me to state the obvious.
04-03-2017, 12:39 PM
If your number one priority is cheap maintenance and operating cost, obviously there are better options out there, but clearly people who buy cars like 996s and Saabs are looking for something other than a reliable beige appliance.
