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Is RaceTech also Race Inc. or Wheel Dynamics?
There is a seller (Porscherims_net) that has these wheels but also great feedback. Just curious if there where other names to be careful of...
99.999% sure they are unrelated to Wheel Dynamics. I researched them both before buying wheels from Wheel Dynamics (and had a good experience BTW)
Is RaceTech also Race Inc. or Wheel Dynamics?
There is a seller (Porscherims_net) that has these wheels but also great feedback. Just curious if there where other names to be careful of...
Originally Posted by stvsxm
look... ill preface this by saying first that I'm new here and second that I'm not a " Porsche guy" per se. I'm here because I bought a 99 Carrera the other day and solicited some specific advice unique to that car... which I love by the way. my career was in racing... prototypes mostly , in all areas... I did design and manufacture and won some championships myself etc and the retired. so what I have to add to this discussion is some very simple and what might be simplistic advice , some of which I am absolutely certain you already know but here it is anyway...
what happens to your car on the race track bears absolutely no relation to what happens on the street. it is really important that you understand this and tattoo it on your eyeballs before you start track day-ing your car. if you leave it stock you are taking big mechanical risks and if you use bolt on performance stuff often you aren't doing much better. once you get a grasp on the concept that the usage is galactally different as far as the mechanical and thermodynamic loads as well as the simple stresses on every part of the car, believe it and treat every single one of your purchases as if your life and the life of your car depends on it because they do. these wheels are a good example... if you are taking your car to the race track, why would you ever buy anything other than a pure racing wheel from a company with a long history . if I was taking my car to the track ( which im not) my first call would be to BBS , and my second to brembo and my third to someone that actually races o0ne of these to find out wht kind of radiators , oil coolers and sump modifications I needed. and while I know you want to support your advertisers and all , before I shelled out ANY money for ANY aftermarket parts of ANY kind, I would be at the race track looking at the cars that are winning and bullet proof week after week. you can't believe the advertising and you have to cast a VERY cynical eye/ear on the propaganda and voodoo that is part of the " modding" culture of street cars for performance. I'm not trying to0 sell you anything... I am just trying to tell you to be really really smart and keep it really really simple when you are going to the race track. no magic stuff , nothing that doesn't have a long and distinguished history of success. nothing that the basic laws of physics tell you doesn't make sense. if you don't understand it at a molecular level, don't buy it. real race cars are real race cars for a reason and a race car makes a terrible street car. for what your cars cost you you would be way better not track daying your street cars at all... build up a nice clean shell that you bought cheap. you will be faster , safer and have a hell of a lot more fun because the car will work a lot better and in the end it will probably be cheaper...
You could post this in at least 50% of the threads on here and it would be the best post of the lot! Solid advice.
Its a free country and you can believe what you like. FYI, the term "strings of precipitates" is a common metallurgical term that is found not just on the internet... There is obviously something wring with these race tech wheels, but the micrograph is pretty clear in showing a forged microstructure. If you are not convinced, ask IMR or whatever metallurgical test lab you choose to do a macroetch with a stonger etchant than Kroll's. The macroscopic flow lines should reveal themselves after this.
Your excerpt is correct in that cast 6061 may also exhibit "strings of precipitates" but these would be interdendritic features that would be contained within a single grain and only evident at high magnifications, hence the note 500x or above. The grain size in wrought products is much smaller compared to cast and the precipitates are typically aligned along grain boundaries.
If you are still convinced that these are cheap chinese castings and want to take Race Tech to court, I would suggest that you purchase one of them from a supplier and have IMR or a metallurgical lab do the same assessment on both.
i still stand by my original statement that these are forged, but have not been properly heat treated.
My whole point here is that this work was done by a professional metals testing lab that has all the equipment to do this type of work, they do it routinely, and their expert opinion is that my wheels failed because they display the weaker microstructure of cast wheels and the metal is too soft for t6 specification. There is nothing visible in the pictures on the report I posted for you to review for you to be able to conclude "that report is dead wrong". You would have to "do a macroetch with a stronger etchant" at high magnification to see the elongated grain structure for your statement to have any validity. You are shooting from the hip and that does no one in this forum any service. FYI, I am also a metallurgist in a former life as the head of metals testing at Precision Cast Parts, Portland, Oregon in the '70s for both regular and vacuum investment cast metals used in the aerospace, aircraft and medical industries, so I know a little about this subject.
I vetted the IMR report from every possible angle with the head of the IMR metals lab to be sure this was an accurate analysis and their statements and conclusion was that there was no reason to go any further with testing. They assured me that they were confident in their opinion, that the grain structure they see is CAST metal and that the Brinell hardness is too low to meet 6061-t6 specs.
I'm not saying that everything RTF puts out is cast. I'm saying it appears to me that drivers with RTF wheels are now playing "rolling roulette" on highways/race tracks as to which cars have cast wheels, 2 sets are known to have now failed in less than 8 days use on flat tracks for no good reason causing vehicle damage and owners to abandon their $5000 set of wheels, there is a reason those wheels failed so quickly, and we now probably know what it is. Additionally, RTM has refused to provide refunds for those sets and compensation for vehicle damage to the owners, which they would be legally obligated to do in both cases if filing a lawsuit were an option. In retrospect, doing the right thing with these 2 customers experiencing wheel failures would have been a bargain for RTF, displays a wanton disregard of the obligation a business has to do the right thing to a customer if they want to stay in business, and I doubt RTF will survive as a business as a result. Their December 2016 business filing displays that their operating address is now become their residential apt.#537 in Laguna,Calif, so they may already be out of business, TBD. (see attachment)
Interesting to me as to why a RTM business filing is accepted by the State of Calif. upon renewal, when RTM's California business license was suspended sometime in 2016 which prohibits them to operate. (See attachment)
California ----Whata great state
Also, Check out https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...l#post13875246 post #426 ( 4 broken spokes)
1. Then see my broken wheel (picture 3 broken spokes)and notice how my breaks are identical to post #426, so this is how all of them are likely to break on track.(sorry about picture size--(I have no control over this)
2. Now look at where Asian Cast wheels break(see attachment). Also notice the "Forged " label on the 2nd fake wheel. Any more questions about Cast 6061 metal?
Last edited by garyever; 01-11-2017 at 08:07 PM.
Reason: Pictures added
Not affiliated with Race Tech?? I remember reading that sentence you have cut and pasted about the "strings of participates" on the internet page entitled "6106-T6 forged vrs. cast". Not very convincing----------------- I think I know what they did with one of them as I spun of the track at 125 mph on the 4th track day on those "cast" wheels last September.
This is the email you sent us. Seems like you're kinda not telling the community the entire truth or did you lie to us?
Who really nows with you?
You're doing all this because you're mad that you couldn't keep the wheels for free after you opened a FASLE PayPal dispute claiming you never received the items after we provided you with tracking numbers?
Like your buddies & trolls said JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED.
FYI WE DON'T HAVE ANY AFFILIATION WITH THE MEMBERS THAT POINTED OUT YOUR INACCURATE REPORT WHICH WE ALSO CALLED YOU OUT ON.
HOW'S THE 2ND REPORT COMING ALONG THAT YOU STATED THE AG IS PERFORMING? IF THAT'S EVEN TRUE?
WONDER WHY YOU HAVEN'T POSTED IT?
PERHAPS BECAUSE THEY TESTED THE PRODUCT THE CORRECT WAY IT SHOULD'VE BEEN TESTED AND THE RESULTS AREN'T WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE?
Last edited by RTF-backup; 01-12-2017 at 08:01 AM.
This is the email you sent us. Seems like you're kinda not telling the community the entire truth or did you lie to us?
Who really nows with you?
You're doing all this because you're mad that you couldn't keep the wheels for free after you opened a FASLE PayPal dispute claiming you never received the items after we provided you with tracking numbers?
Like your buddies & trolls said JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED.
FYI WE DON'T HAVE ANY AFFILIATION WITH THE MEMBERS THAT POINTED OUT YOUR INACCURATE REPORT WHICH WE ALSO CALLED YOU OUT ON.
HOW'S THE 2ND REPORT COMING ALONG THAT YOU STATED THE AG IS PERFORMING? IF THAT'S EVEN TRUE?
WONDER WHY YOU HAVEN'T POSTED IT?
PERHAPS BECAUSE THEY TESTED THE PRODUCT THE CORRECT WAY IT SHOULD'VE BEEN TESTED AND THE RESULTS AREN'T WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE?
I'm not a metalurgist, and I didn't play one on TV.
I'm a small businessman. I also provide expert services for clients in hi tech. From a business perspective, this co has all the red flags. Letting a customer come on a public forum and trash the business(right or wrong) is usually the death knell for business. Failing to ship on time, failing to stand behind a product, failing to file the right business info for the state, poor communication - it's a nightmare.
Doesn't matter to me at this point if the products are as they say or not. From a business perspective - find another vendor.
New to this site coming over from CF. I was considering this companies wheels, but I'm not sure what or who to believe anymore.
These guys are either dead or on life support from what I gather.
I'm just wondering what happened to the post that "RTF-Backup" posted this morning? It showed an email that was sent by Gary saying something totally different from the statement that he made on this thread.
Gary if you don't mind explaining your statement that you made in the above post "I spun off track at 125mph" but it seems like you sent the company an email stating you noticed a wobble and drove off the track safely. It didn't mention anything spinning off the track or losing control of your car, why didn't you include that in your email to the company?
Another thing I noticed is that you claim you've worked in the metallurgical testing world. If so why wouldn't you ask IMR to run the proper test? It seems that you're looking for issues.
I recall reading a few months ago similar thread you started. The company showed the emails to everyone that they offered to build you new wheels and you accepted, then changed your mind.
This company for sure needs some MAJOR CS work without a doubt! But, what's the real story here? Did you try to do what the post that's now deleted stated you did and call PayPal after they shipped your wheels and you lost the dispute. I'm sure there's records of all that which both you parties have.
Admins how about you let RTF publicly and openly defend themselves? Seems like they can't even voice what real evidence if they have any because the post get deleted or they don't have access to this forum.
It it seems very one sided if you ask me & and this is coming from a person that has nothing to gain or lose. In fact, based on these threads and post I'll lose if I buy a set of RTF wheels, but everyone should have the right to defend themselves.
New to this site coming over from CF. I was considering this companies wheels, but I'm not sure what or who to believe anymore.
These guys are either dead or on life support from what I gather.
I'm just wondering what happened to the post that "RTF-Backup" posted this morning? It showed an email that was sent by Gary saying something totally different from the statement that he made on this thread.
Gary if you don't mind explaining your statement that you made in the above post "I spun off track at 125mph" but it seems like you sent the company an email stating you noticed a wobble and drove off the track safely. It didn't mention anything spinning off the track or losing control of your car, why didn't you include that in your email to the company?
Another thing I noticed is that you claim you've worked in the metallurgical testing world. If so why wouldn't you ask IMR to run the proper test? It seems that you're looking for issues.
I recall reading a few months ago similar thread you started. The company showed the emails to everyone that they offered to build you new wheels and you accepted, then changed your mind.
This company for sure needs some MAJOR CS work without a doubt! But, what's the real story here? Did you try to do what the post that's now deleted stated you did and call PayPal after they shipped your wheels and you lost the dispute. I'm sure there's records of all that which both you parties have.
Admins how about you let RTF publicly and openly defend themselves? Seems like they can't even voice what real evidence if they have any because the post get deleted or they don't have access to this forum.
It it seems very one sided if you ask me & and this is coming from a person that has nothing to gain or lose. In fact, based on these threads and post I'll lose if I buy a set of RTF wheels, but everyone should have the right to defend themselves.
Again, this is only my opinion.
Bob
bob, your points are well taken and well made and it would be nice to know the absolutes for sure.... but... I would have to ask... you have available to you the very best and fully vetted wheel companies on earth with track records that go back 40 years... why would you consider these guys at all ? what do they offer that would make you send them your money ? are they good or better ? maybe... but why take any risk at all with companies like bbs or oz or others building stuff every day with impeccable track records for the same money ? I don't get it.
c7Z06Bob---So BOB----you've never been on Rennlist before, there is zero information included in your profile, you are remembering my posts from several months ago while as a CF member and c7Z06Bob does not appear anywhere on the the CF site, now you are dissecting the the way I leave a track with a broken wheel, and are now telling Rennlist moderators how to run their forum? You think we're buying this?------Stop the trolling Race Tech and put your efforts into saving your business.
bob, your points are well taken and well made and it would be nice to know the absolutes for sure.... but... I would have to ask... you have available to you the very best and fully vetted wheel companies on earth with track records that go back 40 years... why would you consider these guys at all ? what do they offer that would make you send them your money ? are they good or better ? maybe... but why take any risk at all with companies like bbs or oz or others building stuff every day with impeccable track records for the same money ? I don't get it.
The reason I WAS considering the brand is because of the ad's on CF probably the same reason many members on this site purchased wheels from them.
Then my Sherlock Homes syndrome kicked in and I typed "Race Tech Forged" in the search box and came across this thread.
That had a post created by them today but is no loner on the thread.
You're 100% right BBS, HRE, Forgline are the other brands I'm still in talks with but the pricing isn't remotely close to what I was offered by RTF. One thing for sure RTF isn't getting my money after seeing all this on this site.
I stand behind my post and would like to hear their side of things. What's really going on here? It seems strange that a company isn't allows to represent themselves after being publicly accused of the things that many of your members are stating.
I read all the pages on both threads and it seems something's not on the up and up.
c7Z06Bob---So BOB----you've never been on Rennlist before, there is zero information included in your profile, you are remembering my posts from several months ago while as a CF member and c7Z06Bob does not appear anywhere on the the CF site, now you are dissecting the the way I leave a track with a broken wheel, and are now telling Rennlist moderators how to run their forum? You think we're buying this?------Stop the trolling Race Tech and put your efforts into saving your business.
Seems like you've been a member since 2013 and started your first post in march of 2016.
Only 3 out of 37 post aren't related to this company the other 34 on this site alone are regarding this company. This to me that seem you have a very big grudge on them.
I've been a member since 2015 on CF and haven't created a post on CF yet because I didn't feel the need to.
Why did it take you 3+ years to create your first post on this site?
What are you insinuating here?
My questions remain the same what's the truth here? you clearly stated two things in the post I saw less than 10 hours ago which is no longer available for the rest of the world to see.
If you've got nothing to hide then why don't you show the same email in question you sent to the company to the rest of the world?
When the company showed the site a different side of story than what you're stating here it makes intellectual people start wondering.
Like I said my Sherlock Homes syndrome kicks in when things just don't seem to add up just like most people, I gather you tend to be just like me.
Seems like two people on this post don't agree with your posted report and instead of proving your side you attack people.
Prove what you claim that's all.
I'm not telling anybody how to run anything I'm simply making a logical and rational statement.
How can a company that cant open and publicly defend itself prove anything when the post they create are removed?
It's the same like if you're going fighting a dlind deaf man with no arms and your Bruce Lee. How is that fair?
Does anyone agree?
Yes I remember a post from 2 months ago because you posted the same picture. Just like how other members remember the post.
Gary if you don't mind explaining your statement that you made in the above post "I spun off track at 125mph" but it seems like you sent the company an email stating you noticed a wobble and drove off the track safely. It didn't mention anything spinning off the track or losing control of your car, why didn't you include that in your email to the company?
Bob may very well be someone associated with Race Tech - hell I don't know but it smells funny. That being said, Gary, I'd like to see an answer to this question that you dodged.
And thanks for coming into our little corner of the internet and getting us off to a good start to 2017.
Bob may very well be someone associated with Race Tech - hell I don't know but it smells funny. That being said, Gary, I'd like to see an answer to this question that you dodged.
And thanks for coming into our little corner of the internet and getting us off to a good start to 2017.
01-11-2017, 04:35 PM
