Gbug

I stumbled across this yesterday and haven't seen it mentioned in the 996 forum yet. If you own or are thinking of buying a set of Race Tech Forged wheels you might want to check out this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turbo-forum/965943-race-tech-forged-owes-me-5000-a.html

Long thread, but things start to really get interesting around the 20 page mark.

garyever

Start on page 10 at "THE SMOKING GUN FOR RACE TECH FORGED" and read the certified IMR Metals Lab report that exposes my Race Tech Forged wheels to be "Cast" wheels rather than "forged mono block spec 5 wheels" as advertised. These wheels are breaking on track in less that 4 days use, putting all drivers at risk, and in my opinion have no business on a race track, or being advertised as such.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...5000-a-10.html Post#138

WalterRohrl

H O L Y C R A P ! ! !

I just read that whole thing from page 10 on, what a mess.

The ongoing damage it causes is to any person starting a new business, as it makes it more difficult for them to attract business as buyers will be more wary of anyone without a long and proven track record no matter how good the product may in fact be.

superalloy16

Not affiliated with Race Tech and did not wade through the hundreds of comments, but I am a metallurgist who does this stuff all the time... The independent lab that the issued the report is dead wrong. The micrographs in the report clearly show a forged microstructure that is evident by the strings of precipitates shown in the report. A cast Al microstructure would be dendritic and contains loads of interdendritic porosity. Also, 6061 is a wrought Al alloy grade and is not typically available as ingot stock for casting. The lower hardness and fairly coarse precipitate are typical of 6061 that has been overaged.

FRUNKenstein

That's exactly what I was going to say.

garyever

Not affiliated with Race Tech?? I remember reading that sentence you have cut and pasted about the "strings of participates" on the internet page entitled "6106-T6 forged vrs. cast". Not very convincing-----------------

It would appear there are "strings of participates" in cast 6061 as well.

(I cut and Paste)

6061-T6, aluminum alloy, ... precipitates ( grey dots) in a matrix 6f aluminum solid solution consists of Fe3SiAli o particles directionally segregated in parallel strings in a matrix of "cast" 6061 aluminum solid solution.They go onto explain that this has to be viewed by 500x microscope as well and I think my lab's picture falls way below a level of inspection?

The IMR lab I used is one of the premier metal testing labs in Oregon doing 1000's of these tests annually for the aircraft industry. They do not shoot from the hip.

Additionally, 6061 is the main metal used in imported knockoff Asian aluminum cast wheels that are flooding the USA and a number of other countries now. I can have 200,000 tons of those 6061 knockoff wheels imported into this country per month per the internet ads, but who believes the things sold on the internet any more(see attachment if interested $1- $10 each wheel--don't track with them). See Attachment( you may have to double click the "Asian 6061 cast wheels link depending on your system"?.

Race Tech imported 1500 or so aluminum alloy wheels from South Korea in 2015 and I am still trying to find out what they did with them (they only mfg'r "in house" CNC forged spec 5 ?? per the ads). I think I know what they did with one of them as I spun of the track at 125 mph on the 4th track day on those "cast" wheels last September. (See attachment below)

If you're not affiliated with Race Tech, that $5000 thread will show what we are dealing with. We have a real problem with this Race Tech operation and people need to have information.

I will attach hard copy documentation to anything I post.

superalloy16

Its a free country and you can believe what you like. FYI, the term "strings of precipitates" is a common metallurgical term that is found not just on the internet... There is obviously something wring with these race tech wheels, but the micrograph is pretty clear in showing a forged microstructure. If you are not convinced, ask IMR or whatever metallurgical test lab you choose to do a macroetch with a stonger etchant than Kroll's. The macroscopic flow lines should reveal themselves after this.
Your excerpt is correct in that cast 6061 may also exhibit "strings of precipitates" but these would be interdendritic features that would be contained within a single grain and only evident at high magnifications, hence the note 500x or above. The grain size in wrought products is much smaller compared to cast and the precipitates are typically aligned along grain boundaries.

If you are still convinced that these are cheap chinese castings and want to take Race Tech to court, I would suggest that you purchase one of them from a supplier and have IMR or a metallurgical lab do the same assessment on both.

i still stand by my original statement that these are forged, but have not been properly heat treated.

chsu74

The point is that there is a hack out there trying to sell wheels at pricing comparable to BBS, HRE or FISKE without proper knowledge and experience.

Sneaky Pete

superalloy16......how in the world did you find this thread if you don't have a dog in the fight? Just appears a bit fishy.

squid42

Does Racetech have their own factory? Who actually makes the wheels?

jaetee

To be fair, your initial post did not really say that in terms a non-metallurgist would comprehend... Thanks for further clarifying your train of thought with your comment above.

I wondered the same thing when I read his first post in this thread (and was scratching my head trying to understand it all) but after looking at previous posts and history here I figured he is simply more of a quiet lurker type who stepped up to share his apparently qualified professional opinion... Glad he did. Sounds like the problem with these wheels could just be a bad manufacturing batch rather than bad intentions.

Luch

Is RaceTech also Race Inc. or Wheel Dynamics?
There is a seller (Porscherims_net) that has these wheels but also great feedback. Just curious if there where other names to be careful of...

TonyTwoBags

"....it just so happens I am a proctologist..."

stvsxm

look... ill preface this by saying first that I'm new here and second that I'm not a " Porsche guy" per se. I'm here because I bought a 99 Carrera the other day and solicited some specific advice unique to that car... which I love by the way. my career was in racing... prototypes mostly , in all areas... I did design and manufacture and won some championships myself etc and the retired. so what I have to add to this discussion is some very simple and what might be simplistic advice , some of which I am absolutely certain you already know but here it is anyway...


what happens to your car on the race track bears absolutely no relation to what happens on the street. it is really important that you understand this and tattoo it on your eyeballs before you start track day-ing your car. if you leave it stock you are taking big mechanical risks and if you use bolt on performance stuff often you aren't doing much better. once you get a grasp on the concept that the usage is galactally different as far as the mechanical and thermodynamic loads as well as the simple stresses on every part of the car, believe it and treat every single one of your purchases as if your life and the life of your car depends on it because they do. these wheels are a good example... if you are taking your car to the race track, why would you ever buy anything other than a pure racing wheel from a company with a long history . if I was taking my car to the track ( which im not) my first call would be to BBS , and my second to brembo and my third to someone that actually races o0ne of these to find out wht kind of radiators , oil coolers and sump modifications I needed. and while I know you want to support your advertisers and all , before I shelled out ANY money for ANY aftermarket parts of ANY kind, I would be at the race track looking at the cars that are winning and bullet proof week after week. you can't believe the advertising and you have to cast a VERY cynical eye/ear on the propaganda and voodoo that is part of the " modding" culture of street cars for performance. I'm not trying to0 sell you anything... I am just trying to tell you to be really really smart and keep it really really simple when you are going to the race track. no magic stuff , nothing that doesn't have a long and distinguished history of success. nothing that the basic laws of physics tell you doesn't make sense. if you don't understand it at a molecular level, don't buy it. real race cars are real race cars for a reason and a race car makes a terrible street car. for what your cars cost you you would be way better not track daying your street cars at all... build up a nice clean shell that you bought cheap. you will be faster , safer and have a hell of a lot more fun because the car will work a lot better and in the end it will probably be cheaper...

stan23

I read the whole thread, and garyever's amazing uncovering. Sounds like this:

1. Race tech is buying aluminum in bulk from Korea
2. All wheels are made to order and outsourcing wheel production to some shop
3. Not delivering orders, or orders are severely delayed
4. Some wheels have developed cracks, and RT is slow to refund

?