Intermix - Is mine regular nasty or extra nasty?
10-03-2016, 01:40 AM
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Intermix - Is mine regular nasty or extra nasty?
Hi all.
Based on several posts I've read here and on Pelican Parts I just bought a 2000 996 (6sp coupe) with a known intermix issue. The car was cheap and I took a gamble that the issue was caused by a crack in the #1 cylinder head. It is in otherwise excellent shape with service records and 67k miles.
It turns out that my educated hunch was correct (thanks to all who posted on this topic), there is a large crack from the plug bore to the inner exhaust valve guide. I've sourced a replacement head and all the various gaskets & seals, new clutch and EPS IMS bearing. I removed the engine immediately after I bought the car and it's currently sitting on a stand in the garage.
The PO stated that he had recently replaced the coolant reservoir because it had cracked. My guess is that it had overheated at that time which caused the crack in the head.
My issue is the level of contamination in the cooling system. While the oil is bad, it's still flows like oil should, the coolant on the other hand does not flow at all. It's about the consistency of lightweight grease (maybe a little thinner), if I throw a glob of it at a vertical surface it sticks and doesn't run down, even after a couple days.
I used low pressure air (~20psi) to slowly push most of the gunk through the radiators and heater core, which worked really well and yielded several gallons of concentrated gunk. From there put a sump pump in a 5 gallon bucket with a mix of water/Shout as many have recommended. I rigged hoses to flush the radiators, heater core and engine block separately.
After several flushes (about 5 and maybe 1hr pump run time for each of the 3 systems) I get good flow and and clean water with very little contamination in the bucket. I thought all was well until I unhooked my hose fittings, there is still a thick (maybe 1/8-1/4") coating of gunk around the inside of the hoses.
My question is, is this a typical level of contamination or is my case unusually severe? Will running the engine up to temperature with the Shout mixture clear it out or am I likely to cause further damage?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Based on several posts I've read here and on Pelican Parts I just bought a 2000 996 (6sp coupe) with a known intermix issue. The car was cheap and I took a gamble that the issue was caused by a crack in the #1 cylinder head. It is in otherwise excellent shape with service records and 67k miles.
It turns out that my educated hunch was correct (thanks to all who posted on this topic), there is a large crack from the plug bore to the inner exhaust valve guide. I've sourced a replacement head and all the various gaskets & seals, new clutch and EPS IMS bearing. I removed the engine immediately after I bought the car and it's currently sitting on a stand in the garage.
The PO stated that he had recently replaced the coolant reservoir because it had cracked. My guess is that it had overheated at that time which caused the crack in the head.
My issue is the level of contamination in the cooling system. While the oil is bad, it's still flows like oil should, the coolant on the other hand does not flow at all. It's about the consistency of lightweight grease (maybe a little thinner), if I throw a glob of it at a vertical surface it sticks and doesn't run down, even after a couple days.
I used low pressure air (~20psi) to slowly push most of the gunk through the radiators and heater core, which worked really well and yielded several gallons of concentrated gunk. From there put a sump pump in a 5 gallon bucket with a mix of water/Shout as many have recommended. I rigged hoses to flush the radiators, heater core and engine block separately.
After several flushes (about 5 and maybe 1hr pump run time for each of the 3 systems) I get good flow and and clean water with very little contamination in the bucket. I thought all was well until I unhooked my hose fittings, there is still a thick (maybe 1/8-1/4") coating of gunk around the inside of the hoses.
My question is, is this a typical level of contamination or is my case unusually severe? Will running the engine up to temperature with the Shout mixture clear it out or am I likely to cause further damage?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
10-03-2016, 03:56 AM
#2
How long has the intermix been sat in there, I discovered some of my hoses got contaminated and were saturated with the oil from the intermix and had gone soft so I ended up striping the whole cooling system and piping off the car which isn't a small job but, you can make sure it's all clean!! The heater pipes were the hardest to clean as I couldn't remove these due to the petrol tank etc, I ended up cutting through both pipes just behind the petrol tank and pushing cloth through on a rod with IPA alcohol to get them clean then used silicon pipe joiners to seal it up again, my rads needed replacing anyway so I chanced those and the heater core with good ones from a local breakers, good luck. It's horrible stuff to get out, mine was thick as anything and I'm not sure flushing would have worked?
10-03-2016, 09:36 AM
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Like Noz said it really depends on how long the stuff has been in the system. A couple months may be ok but longer I think you are asking for never ending headache chasing one hose after another. If you got the car for cheap I would spend some of that savings and get some new hoses.
10-03-2016, 10:52 AM
#5
Former Vendor
Y2K syndrome again...
That said, the hoses are a big risk with intermix in the cooling system. I have seen the hoses damaged in less than 45 days. After 3-6 months the largest of the hoses will usually be compromised. If the mess sits in the cooling system for more than 6 months we usually have to replace all 29 hoses in the entire cooling system. Sometimes it also takes out radiators, and the heater core, too.
Get the system purged ASAP if you have intermix! Sounds like you have done that. I typically use hot water to do the purge, since it cuts the gunk from the hoses better than anything.
This happens every time.
That said, the hoses are a big risk with intermix in the cooling system. I have seen the hoses damaged in less than 45 days. After 3-6 months the largest of the hoses will usually be compromised. If the mess sits in the cooling system for more than 6 months we usually have to replace all 29 hoses in the entire cooling system. Sometimes it also takes out radiators, and the heater core, too.
Get the system purged ASAP if you have intermix! Sounds like you have done that. I typically use hot water to do the purge, since it cuts the gunk from the hoses better than anything.
This happens every time.
10-04-2016, 01:48 PM
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Test - Plain Water, Shout, Simple Green and Diesel
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and sympathy.
I think it's been about 4-5 weeks since the PO realized there was an intermix problem with the car. I looked through the receipts that came with it and there isn't one for the replacement coolant reservoir (likely root cause) so I'm not sure how long it's been since the crack occurred.
The hoses seem to be in good condition but I plan to replace any that are difficult to access with the engine in the car out of caution. I'll monitor the remaining hoses afterward and probably replace them all if any show signs of imminent failure.
I flushed the block with simple green last night for about 2 hours and it had virtually no effect.
I borrowed my son's heated stir plate and ran some tests using my tire pyrometer to monitor the temperature...
For the first test I tried heating a sample of goop in plain water. The sample remained unchanged all the way to boiling except for a little softening past 200*.
I started again with 10 drops of Shout and a pea-sized ball of goo in 100ml of water and the agitator on the lowest level. At around 170* the goo started to break up a little. At 190* it began to dissolve and formed flat pieces on the surface. At 200* the goo completely dissolved after about 10 minutes leaving only a slight oil residue on the surface.
I also tried Simple Green. The results were similar to Shout but it didn't break up the sample, just eroded the blob starting around 190*, it took quite a bit more SG, about half a capful and took at least 15 minutes at around 200* to completely dissolve.
I tested diesel fuel at room temperature. It immediately began to dissolve the sample without any agitation and ate away about half of the blob after an hour of sitting. Unfortunately diesel is really bad for rubber cooling hoses (and probably water pump seals, oil cooler O-rings and who knows what else). I suspect it wouldn't cause too much damage circulating though the system for a couple hours if I flushed out the residue immediately but I like the results of the Shout enough to try that next.
I've read Jake's posts about running the engine with Shout. He even mentioned that you need to get it up to 200*, which is spot on according to my little test. I'm confident this would work well but I feel more comfortable if the system is cleaned out before I bolt up the engine and turn the key. To that end, I'm planning to use an old turkey fryer (not a fan of turkey anyway) to heat some Shout solution and circulate it through the block, radiators and heater core.
I think it's been about 4-5 weeks since the PO realized there was an intermix problem with the car. I looked through the receipts that came with it and there isn't one for the replacement coolant reservoir (likely root cause) so I'm not sure how long it's been since the crack occurred.
The hoses seem to be in good condition but I plan to replace any that are difficult to access with the engine in the car out of caution. I'll monitor the remaining hoses afterward and probably replace them all if any show signs of imminent failure.
I flushed the block with simple green last night for about 2 hours and it had virtually no effect.
I borrowed my son's heated stir plate and ran some tests using my tire pyrometer to monitor the temperature...
For the first test I tried heating a sample of goop in plain water. The sample remained unchanged all the way to boiling except for a little softening past 200*.
I started again with 10 drops of Shout and a pea-sized ball of goo in 100ml of water and the agitator on the lowest level. At around 170* the goo started to break up a little. At 190* it began to dissolve and formed flat pieces on the surface. At 200* the goo completely dissolved after about 10 minutes leaving only a slight oil residue on the surface.
I also tried Simple Green. The results were similar to Shout but it didn't break up the sample, just eroded the blob starting around 190*, it took quite a bit more SG, about half a capful and took at least 15 minutes at around 200* to completely dissolve.
I tested diesel fuel at room temperature. It immediately began to dissolve the sample without any agitation and ate away about half of the blob after an hour of sitting. Unfortunately diesel is really bad for rubber cooling hoses (and probably water pump seals, oil cooler O-rings and who knows what else). I suspect it wouldn't cause too much damage circulating though the system for a couple hours if I flushed out the residue immediately but I like the results of the Shout enough to try that next.
I've read Jake's posts about running the engine with Shout. He even mentioned that you need to get it up to 200*, which is spot on according to my little test. I'm confident this would work well but I feel more comfortable if the system is cleaned out before I bolt up the engine and turn the key. To that end, I'm planning to use an old turkey fryer (not a fan of turkey anyway) to heat some Shout solution and circulate it through the block, radiators and heater core.
10-04-2016, 02:09 PM
#7
Former Vendor
What you need is an old water heater and some adaptor fittings to connect the discharge of the water heater to the cooling system... Install a Y pipe into this hose that you can use to mix Shout with the hot water, before the water gets into the cooling system. You can't mix the shout inside the water heater!
On the opposite side return the nasty coolant/ intermix and etc into a 55 gallon drum and have it discarded.
Thats the device I built for this. A used water heater is cheap. Until you can get a volume of hot water mixed with Shout through the system, you can't cut all the nasty stuff away.
Simple Green sucks for this, as does most other products, even those that are designed for cleaning Intermix... Shout is the best thing you can buy, especially because it doesn't make a mis with suds, and etc.
On the opposite side return the nasty coolant/ intermix and etc into a 55 gallon drum and have it discarded.
Thats the device I built for this. A used water heater is cheap. Until you can get a volume of hot water mixed with Shout through the system, you can't cut all the nasty stuff away.
Simple Green sucks for this, as does most other products, even those that are designed for cleaning Intermix... Shout is the best thing you can buy, especially because it doesn't make a mis with suds, and etc.
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10-04-2016, 02:22 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
What you need is an old water heater and some adaptor fittings to connect the discharge of the water heater to the cooling system... Install a Y pipe into this hose that you can use to mix Shout with the hot water, before the water gets into the cooling system. You can't mix the shout inside the water heater!
On the opposite side return the nasty coolant/ intermix and etc into a 55 gallon drum and have it discarded.
Thats the device I built for this. A used water heater is cheap. Until you can get a volume of hot water mixed with Shout through the system, you can't cut all the nasty stuff away.
Simple Green sucks for this, as does most other products, even those that are designed for cleaning Intermix... Shout is the best thing you can buy, especially because it doesn't make a mis with suds, and etc.
On the opposite side return the nasty coolant/ intermix and etc into a 55 gallon drum and have it discarded.
Thats the device I built for this. A used water heater is cheap. Until you can get a volume of hot water mixed with Shout through the system, you can't cut all the nasty stuff away.
Simple Green sucks for this, as does most other products, even those that are designed for cleaning Intermix... Shout is the best thing you can buy, especially because it doesn't make a mis with suds, and etc.
Another "Golden Nugget" from Jake! -
10-04-2016, 03:26 PM
#11
Former Vendor
10-04-2016, 03:36 PM
#12
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