docmirror

Yesssss but - a borescope is a great tool for one of the specific failure modes. Combined with the condition of the spark plugs, and a leakdown test, this can be very useful in cylinder condition inspection.

Continental engines even spec a borescope exam for low compression jugs, however in this case the common failure point is the exhaust valve burning, or deposits on the stem which won't let the valve close completely. We all dread the bore scoring so might be good to eliminate/confirm that early. A decent USB endoscope on ebay is $30.

haji3

I had a similar tick that I thought was a lifter, turned out being the water pump. The impeller was hitting on the block and then finally bit the dust with a bit racket.

Montychristo128

Thanks guys keep it coming. Pelican package on the way, will buy an mechanic's stethoscope over the next few days and start trying to eliminate issues.

One thing I forgot to mention was a few weeks back I got a CEL, I thought they all related to the MAF, and I pulled it, cleaned it and reset. But one was a pending P1531 bank 1 camshaft position sensor, so I'm wondering if its chain tensioners or something related. Will post pictures of filter etc once I get it pulled out.

Hmm plot thickens.

Flat6 Innovations

While using the stethoscope use a scan tool to deactivate injectors one by one. See what happens to the noise, then report back.

That's a silver bullet..

Slakker

Del

Montychristo128

So I have pulled plugs/coils (getting good at this now) and bought a boroscope/inspection camera I will look tomorrow with the mirror attachment, as I see nothing much with just the camera, plugs do not seem to be fouled though, they are a little sooty on the outer rim, but lovely golden brown on the centres, no signs of oil contamination?

Flat6 Innovations

I don't see much of the bore... Just the piston

Montychristo128

Yeah Jake, I realised I should have used the inspection mirror, so deleted the video, I will try again tomorrow and see if that works better. Will upload something hopefully more meaningful.

Thanks for taking the time to review.

Montychristo128

Well the inspection camera was about as much use as a fart in an elevator..... The 45 degree mirror attachment did nothing, so that's going back to Canadian Tire.

I rebuilt and checked with the good old stethoscope and it seems to be in the head on cylinder 1, you can hear it on the headers, head itself and quietens as you move towards centre of the engine and front of the car.

Still waiting to get filter and tools to remove from Pelican, but still seems like lifters to me.

Any thoughts Team Rennlist?

Flat6 Innovations

I don't believe it.. The noise emanates across the engine very well. At times when the cylinder wears enough it can create an occurrence where the piston can rock enough at TDC changeover that the piston contacts the cylinder head. In this instance the noise will come mostly from the cylinder head.

The chances of this being a lifter are very slim. Not impossible, but I haven't seen a bad lifter in many years. I have seen dozens of misdiagnosed lifters, and lots of wasted money, and time.

cylinder deactivation as I stated earlier is the best way to diagnose this.

Schnell Gelb

"when the cylinder wears enough it can create an occurrence where the piston can rock enough at TDC changeover that the piston contacts the cylinder head. In this instance the noise will come mostly from the cylinder head."
So when the OP dismantles the engine and measures the suspect cylinder bore, he should expect to discover significant ovality and taper ?
If so it makes the time I spent doing all those tedious bore measurements worthwhile.
For each bore I measured in 3 locations and at 3 levels at least twice and plotted the results. Any bore where I failed to match the first & second measurements ,I re-did until I got the same measurements. You have to pre=mark every bore in exactly the same location so all measurements are from the same positions.And it all needs to be done at the same temperature but it takes a few hours to do it conscientiously. Why? because of the precision required - this is not a task you can do with instruments accurate to +/-1 thou. Even with the correct precision instrument, I doubt many of us have the machinist skills to make such measurements to the required standard. I had no idea what I was getting in to this level of skill !It was a humbling experience.

Montychristo128

I think I will take it to an Indie shop, the guys on the Canadian forum made some recommendations and one is really close to home. Waiting for them to contact me.

Oh well its only money!!!

Flat6 Innovations

Possibly.. The scoring and ovality has to be pretty bad to create this.

Likely its mid- bore wear and the typical ticking that this presents time after time. That's what diagnosis is for, and at times it can take a lot of effort to find the root of a problem.

Ben Z

My ticker definitely had several bad lifters (60K miles), saw them with my own eyes. There was no tailpipe sooting, no increase in oil consumption, and a borescope revealed no bore scoring.

Only because a lifter job would cost roughly a third of an entire RND engine swap, I made the judgment call to do the swap instead. When the engine came apart, significant scoring was found on the piston skirts. Given the extent, I feel it would likely have progressed to bore scoring over the next 20K miles or so.

I do not know if the ticking had been from the pistons or lifters or both. If no damage had been found on the piston skirts, I would no doubt be kicking myself for spending the extra money. As it turned out I'm glad I didn't pay to put new lifters in a sick engine. But I have experienced first-hand that bad lifters and scoring issues can exist simultaneously.

Schnell Gelb

Ben,
Did you dismantle the engine completely to identify other possible ticking culprits? I ask because in my "Ticking" case I had bad lifters but the real problem was a main bearing.That eventually became a knocking case ! If I had dismantled the engine at the ticking stage and found bad lifters , I bet I would have just replaced them and re-installed the engine - kaboooom! My LN filter saved the engine.Unfortunately the new filter assy. (and a badly installed LN IMSB ) had been fitted just before I bought the car. It only lasted a few hundred miles ! Yup - I doubt the engine was correctly pre-qualified.
So among other things, the old debris may have jammed some lifters but eventually it damaged the main bearing.