jeleccion

I was driving in warm weather last week when my '99 C2 cab got hot, so I pulled over before I pegged the temp guage and had it towed to my mechanic. He didn't pull it apart, but upon his visual inpsection, he found oil in the coolant tank. The coolant is a bit brown and thicker than normal.

Unfortunately, according to him, I probably blew an internal oil seal which is allowing oil to get into the cooling system. However, in order to fix the seal, the motor has to be torn apart and he says he doesn't have all the tools to do so--only the dealer does and of course a new crate motor from the dealer is around $20k. This is a real bummer has the car is extremely clean and I love the car. The IMS has been changed, new clutch, etc. and the car still runs, it just overheats.

Having never torn one of these things apart, I have no idea how much work is involved, but he is saying at least 50 hours or more in labor. Any suggestions or thoughts?

Thanks--I think!

Cuda911

Could be other causes. But, my very first thought is.... find a better mechanic.

Only the dealer has the tools to pull to motor apart? What sort of mechanic do you have? Any reasonable shop should be able to pull the motor apart.

Anyway, read this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-the-yard.html

FRUNKenstein

Here's another one worth reading:

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...n-coolant.html

Slakker

Sounds like your AOS went bad. It will most likely need a rebuild. There are very few places that can really work on this engine. I recommend you talk to Flat Six Innovations out of Cleveland, GA and Innovative Auto Sports out of Carrolton, TX.

And yes you are going to have a lot more in this car than buying another one would cost. But if you get it done right, it will last a whole lot longer and be worth every penny.

Triple Black

Where are you located? A good indie with the proper tools can do a rebuild. Yes, you need to find a better mechanic. I can recommend one if you are in my area.

Noz1974

There is no seal that can just blow in the engine!!
That's guy has no idea!!
Do you have intermix in the sump, or is the oil clear on the dipstick??
It may just be your AOS , there is a coolant feed to it in a sepperate compartment to the oil vent side but if it fails they can mix and put oil in the coolant so don't start tearing your engine down until you check the simple stuff first.
Tool wise you only need the cam hold down tool when removing the cam covers to stop cam damage but otherwise it's normal tools so don't know what that guy is on about.
Good luck, hope it's something easy and not too expensive !!

Barn996

Or perhaps a cracked head.Hope not.

jeleccion

Thanks for the replies and also the various links. Yeah, I think I need to look for a new "Wrench" ASAP. He's getting pretty close to retirement and I just don't think he wants to do the work.

FYI, I looked closer at my coolant tank, oil filler tube and dip stick. The coolant tank definitely has that beige sludge like liquid wax. The filler tube has a similar film in it, but the dip stick doens't have anything on it but Redline. Does this tell anyone anything? Also, since I'm new to this forum, I don't know how to post any pics. If you can share that, I'd love to post some of these.

So, in reading the various comments, I have a few questions:
-You mention that if it's the AOS, that could be "simple" vs. having to tear down the motor, yet I thought I saw someone mention that if it is the AOS, that would require a tear down.

-I also saw on another site that replacing a AOS is about $1500. That seems awfully cheap. Wouldn't it be considerably more than that?

-Worst case scenario, it's something pretty catastrophic, do you have opinions for either:
1. a wrecking yard motor (and of course replacing the IMS straight away)--I've heard this is around $5k not counting labor to put it in, so I'm ballparking another $2-3k for that
2. a complete tear down and rebuild - which I understand could be $12-13k
3. or a rebuilt motor in the crate. If so, any recommendations? Also, if I go with this option, can I opt in for the 3.6 as an upgrade to my 3.4?

-Also, I'm in Northern CA in the East Bay (Benicia/Walnut Creek/Concord), so if you have any recommendations for a good mechanic, I'd love to know.

Mahalo,
Joe

Slakker

AOS failure is one of the most prevalent causes of intermix. It's a $150 part that takes about 6 hours to replace. But once the intermix happens, the water mixing into the oil is usually catastrophic to the engine. At the very least it needs to be torn down and cleaned by somebody that specializes in M96 engines.

I would highly recommend against used motors. That has been a very short term solution for most that have tried it.

For a rebuild, you can get a short block from the factory for about $6k. Depending on what else needs to be replaced, you are looking at 10-15k. If you want to upgrade to a 3.8, research LN Nickies.

jeleccion

Great. That's what I thought.

So one more dumb question. We all love these things--otherwise, we wouldn't be on a forum talking about them, but at what point do you decide to jump ship. By that I mean sell it and take what I can get for it as is (I'm assuming $3-5k) then go buy a 997-2 or something like that. Granted, I'd be dropping a lot more money, but I'm theoretically buying piece of mind. Or an I thinking about this in the wrong way. A 996 rebuild IS buying piece of mind?

Slakker

You can get 5-8k as a roller. The '99 is the best model year for a 911. Seriously, out of any year made. Any older and it lacks power. The newer you get the more the car does for you and the less you get to drive it. It is truly the best year. So in my opinion, it is totally worth fixing right and enjoying it for a long time to come.

Cuda911

That point is easy.... if you don't love the car and have the cash, go with a 997.2. That's my opinion.

jeleccion

Update on my 996 mess with the coolant and oil milkshake. I found a reputable PCA recommended mechanic and he has looked into everything and concluded that unfortunately, it is something much more catastrophic. He has determined that all the typical things like the AOS, the oil cooler, etc. are not the cause, so we are now looking at a total rebuild.

I'm attached to the car and will probably end up having it rebuilt. I'd love to hear from someone who has gone through this process.
-Do crate motors have warrantees?
-Is it worth going the shortblock route or just get a whole new motor?
-What's the typical "all in" cost?
-Are there any reasonable upgrades I should be looking while it's apart?
-Also, I hope to not be branded a heretic, but I have looked into Renegade Hybrids and although this is not my first choice, the LS option does have some merit. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I'm trying to get as much dat as I can in order to make a final decision on this. Any opinions would be helpful.

Thanks,
Joe

Cuda911

I don't think you can buy a new crate motor anymore. But if you can, it will be more expensive than just buying a new car. There are some aftermarket rebuilts available from a couple sources. If a rebuild can be done on your motor, I would suggest going that route.

The LS conversions are great, from what I hear. It will be expensive too. I believe in the $15K range (parts and labor). In California, it would be very difficult to register an LS conversion. No idea where you are located.

jeleccion

From what i gather, we are looking at either a junkyard motor that we would rebuild, a rebuilt motor from the factory or one from Flat 6 Innovations. The last one is the most interesting option as they have a variety of stages to choose from, but even in stock form, the motors are supposedly bulletproof.

As for the LS option, it seems you are correct. I live in CA and trying to get a referee to approve the installation can be difficult.

Thanks for your reply.