997 worth the extra cost compared to a 996?
03-22-2016, 12:46 PM
#32
I had an '03 Targa for about 3 years. Honestly, I gradually got more and more annoyed with it. Exterior-wise it's a great looking car. When a couple P-car snobs got on me about the headlights I just laughed and told them I liked em, which I do/ did. Personally I think the interior was dated and I never did get attached to it. Also it squeeked and rattled constantly. Even that was not the biggest thing. The two things that bothered me were A) Having the IMS problem hanging over my head. B)The Targa top. You see the Targa only closes with a mesh screen. Seems minor , but you NEVER get away from the sun. That's pretty hard when you are driving across the desert to Las Vegas, or driving back with a nasty hangover. Seems like a minor thing but like the Chinese torture test it just gradually wears you down. I looked for a replacement part for the mash that was solid but never did find one. Maybe now they have one. The ceramic IMS repair is available now as well and if I had the car still I would make that a number one priority. Overall, aesthetics are an individual taste but IMO the 997.2 is a step up in appearance that is worth taking.
03-22-2016, 12:54 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
^ the 997.2 is a whole other story. If I had a 997.1 I would be upgrading to one. The engine alone is worth the upgrade and the base 997.2 is 350 hp which is a worth while hp upgrade.
Last edited by jumper5836; 03-22-2016 at 02:51 PM.
03-22-2016, 01:11 PM
#34
Race Director
I still don't understand why the 996 interior gets panned - sure, it's nowhere near as luxurious compared to what you'll buy today, but compared to earlier 911's, it's less spartan, far less angular, and looks much less like it was designed by someone whose only design tool was a ruler.
While I don't personally favor the design of the 997 interior - back to more straight lines - it's certainly true that the materials were better - and they should be. The 911 has evolved from being a relatively low-production plaything targeted at a very specific market into being a mass-produced luxury vehicle designed to appeal to as many people as possible - so of course the creature comforts continue to get piled on, and the hard-edged plaything for weekend warriors gets wrapped in ever-thicker layers of leather and electronics.
The 996 is a simpler machine than the 997 (not necessarily from a mechanical aspect, but from a purely operational perspective) - although my 996 has PSM, it's otherwise an incarnation of the classic sports coupe: an engine, a gearbox with a lever sticking out of it, a seat, a wheel, and a few pedals. Sure, you could get a nav unit in your 996, but in stock form the 996 was spartan. Compared to the 911's sitting on the Porsche lot today, it's a dinosaur, but in a good way.
While I don't personally favor the design of the 997 interior - back to more straight lines - it's certainly true that the materials were better - and they should be. The 911 has evolved from being a relatively low-production plaything targeted at a very specific market into being a mass-produced luxury vehicle designed to appeal to as many people as possible - so of course the creature comforts continue to get piled on, and the hard-edged plaything for weekend warriors gets wrapped in ever-thicker layers of leather and electronics.
The 996 is a simpler machine than the 997 (not necessarily from a mechanical aspect, but from a purely operational perspective) - although my 996 has PSM, it's otherwise an incarnation of the classic sports coupe: an engine, a gearbox with a lever sticking out of it, a seat, a wheel, and a few pedals. Sure, you could get a nav unit in your 996, but in stock form the 996 was spartan. Compared to the 911's sitting on the Porsche lot today, it's a dinosaur, but in a good way.
03-22-2016, 02:29 PM
#35
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Rennlist Member
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I still don't understand why the 996 interior gets panned - sure, it's nowhere near as luxurious compared to what you'll buy today, but compared to earlier 911's, it's less spartan, far less angular, and looks much less like it was designed by someone whose only design tool was a ruler.
While I don't personally favor the design of the 997 interior - back to more straight lines - it's certainly true that the materials were better - and they should be. The 911 has evolved from being a relatively low-production plaything targeted at a very specific market into being a mass-produced luxury vehicle designed to appeal to as many people as possible - so of course the creature comforts continue to get piled on, and the hard-edged plaything for weekend warriors gets wrapped in ever-thicker layers of leather and electronics.
The 996 is a simpler machine than the 997 (not necessarily from a mechanical aspect, but from a purely operational perspective) - although my 996 has PSM, it's otherwise an incarnation of the classic sports coupe: an engine, a gearbox with a lever sticking out of it, a seat, a wheel, and a few pedals. Sure, you could get a nav unit in your 996, but in stock form the 996 was spartan. Compared to the 911's sitting on the Porsche lot today, it's a dinosaur, but in a good way.
While I don't personally favor the design of the 997 interior - back to more straight lines - it's certainly true that the materials were better - and they should be. The 911 has evolved from being a relatively low-production plaything targeted at a very specific market into being a mass-produced luxury vehicle designed to appeal to as many people as possible - so of course the creature comforts continue to get piled on, and the hard-edged plaything for weekend warriors gets wrapped in ever-thicker layers of leather and electronics.
The 996 is a simpler machine than the 997 (not necessarily from a mechanical aspect, but from a purely operational perspective) - although my 996 has PSM, it's otherwise an incarnation of the classic sports coupe: an engine, a gearbox with a lever sticking out of it, a seat, a wheel, and a few pedals. Sure, you could get a nav unit in your 996, but in stock form the 996 was spartan. Compared to the 911's sitting on the Porsche lot today, it's a dinosaur, but in a good way.
The early 996s had the vinyl that didn't appear to be as premium. This of course was addressed with the later generations and the leather option. But once a car has a reputation then that's it.
Plus the flowing nature of the dash compared to the straight lines bothered the purists.
Compared to anything today the dash seems simple but I like that about the car. You can tell it's meant for driving and that's it.
03-22-2016, 03:36 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I had an '03 Targa for about 3 years. Honestly, I gradually got more and more annoyed with it. Exterior-wise it's a great looking car. When a couple P-car snobs got on me about the headlights I just laughed and told them I liked em, which I do/ did. Personally I think the interior was dated and I never did get attached to it. Also it squeeked and rattled constantly. Even that was not the biggest thing. The two things that bothered me were A) Having the IMS problem hanging over my head. B)The Targa top. You see the Targa only closes with a mesh screen. Seems minor , but you NEVER get away from the sun. That's pretty hard when you are driving across the desert to Las Vegas, or driving back with a nasty hangover. Seems like a minor thing but like the Chinese torture test it just gradually wears you down. I looked for a replacement part for the mash that was solid but never did find one. Maybe now they have one. The ceramic IMS repair is available now as well and if I had the car still I would make that a number one priority. Overall, aesthetics are an individual taste but IMO the 997.2 is a step up in appearance that is worth taking.
03-22-2016, 08:22 PM
#39
Honestly, coming from an E46 325i, the interior in my '99 C4 is without question a downgrade, both in terms of quality and styling. I knew what I was getting into, but it's just amusing to me how little interior $75k bought in the Porsche world back then. I'm not even sure that it's better than my family's old '96 MB C220.
The 997.1 I test drove felt pretty close to the E46, similarly modern and reasonably high quality (except the fit and finish of the buttons weren't fantastic). 997.2 I think was where the interior made the jump to legit "luxury car" status.
The 997.1 I test drove felt pretty close to the E46, similarly modern and reasonably high quality (except the fit and finish of the buttons weren't fantastic). 997.2 I think was where the interior made the jump to legit "luxury car" status.
03-22-2016, 10:27 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
I still don't understand why the 996 interior gets panned - sure, it's nowhere near as luxurious compared to what you'll buy today, but compared to earlier 911's, it's less spartan, far less angular, and looks much less like it was designed by someone whose only design tool was a ruler.
While I don't personally favor the design of the 997 interior - back to more straight lines - it's certainly true that the materials were better - and they should be. The 911 has evolved from being a relatively low-production plaything targeted at a very specific market into being a mass-produced luxury vehicle designed to appeal to as many people as possible - so of course the creature comforts continue to get piled on, and the hard-edged plaything for weekend warriors gets wrapped in ever-thicker layers of leather and electronics.
The 996 is a simpler machine than the 997 (not necessarily from a mechanical aspect, but from a purely operational perspective) - although my 996 has PSM, it's otherwise an incarnation of the classic sports coupe: an engine, a gearbox with a lever sticking out of it, a seat, a wheel, and a few pedals. Sure, you could get a nav unit in your 996, but in stock form the 996 was spartan. Compared to the 911's sitting on the Porsche lot today, it's a dinosaur, but in a good way.
While I don't personally favor the design of the 997 interior - back to more straight lines - it's certainly true that the materials were better - and they should be. The 911 has evolved from being a relatively low-production plaything targeted at a very specific market into being a mass-produced luxury vehicle designed to appeal to as many people as possible - so of course the creature comforts continue to get piled on, and the hard-edged plaything for weekend warriors gets wrapped in ever-thicker layers of leather and electronics.
The 996 is a simpler machine than the 997 (not necessarily from a mechanical aspect, but from a purely operational perspective) - although my 996 has PSM, it's otherwise an incarnation of the classic sports coupe: an engine, a gearbox with a lever sticking out of it, a seat, a wheel, and a few pedals. Sure, you could get a nav unit in your 996, but in stock form the 996 was spartan. Compared to the 911's sitting on the Porsche lot today, it's a dinosaur, but in a good way.
03-23-2016, 10:24 AM
#41
Addict
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The 911 has never really had a luxurious interior. Sure the air cooled models looked higher quality but they were never luxurious. In fact they were even more simple but over the years kept adding on buttons and switches to carry out functions the newer cars added.
It wasn't until recently that drivers began demanding they be coddled while in the car that Porsche changed things up. Think about the 1980s 911 - a car driven by a lot of the 1980s stereotypical lawyers, doctors, brokers, etc. These guys had to contend with a car that was ONLY available in a manual, had crappy A/C, no power steering, and didn't have a very compliant ride. Yet everyone knew if you wanted a sports car you would have to live with compromises.
Now the typical Porsche buyer wouldn't dare consider the car unless it had all of the "luxuries" most other vehicles do.
03-23-2016, 10:39 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Porsches early aircooled minimalist interiors were all part of the design just like the engines - 356 oil coolers are the size of a pint of milk.
Times change.
I think Porsche has kept their design pretty consistent throughout the model years and as the design has crept toward the current models, they have taken into consideration all the bitching and moaning by the aircooled crowd regarding crappy heating & a/c, uncomfortable seats/etc - making the car more user friendly results in more refined design components.
Times change.
I think Porsche has kept their design pretty consistent throughout the model years and as the design has crept toward the current models, they have taken into consideration all the bitching and moaning by the aircooled crowd regarding crappy heating & a/c, uncomfortable seats/etc - making the car more user friendly results in more refined design components.
03-23-2016, 10:54 AM
#43
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My dad has a 2007 Targa 4S and while the interior is beautiful, I prefer driving my 996. It's more nimble, simpler (less gizmos), and just feels more raw. I would never buy a Porsche 911 as a "luxury car". I am more about the minimalistic approach and care more so about overall driving experience.
Plus, I don't think I could own a car without a dipstick
Plus, I don't think I could own a car without a dipstick
03-23-2016, 11:01 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
I totally agree BUT I think this topic is very subjective depending on your age - I've been driving Porsches for 35 years.
Now at 57, things like getting in and out of car, sitting for long periods of time take a toll and creature comforts are greatly appreciated.
I find the 996 interior adequate but can appreciate the newer interior designs.
Now at 57, things like getting in and out of car, sitting for long periods of time take a toll and creature comforts are greatly appreciated.
I find the 996 interior adequate but can appreciate the newer interior designs.
03-23-2016, 11:10 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
How did this thread go from Otter Demise to some sort of referendum on interior design? 