Bobster996

AWD Guy, I'd not read that. I thought D chunking is what the 3.4 engines did, not the 3.6. If the engine is noisy, then the bores have gone oval, and sound like piston slap. If that is the case, it's knackered and needs a re build. Sounds like there's a different take on it in the US, in the UK, the consensus is that as some stage, ALL M96 engines will have bore score, it just depends upon when and how bad.
Sounds like the OP bought a car which was sold on as the previous owner knew it had scored bores. This doesn't happen overnight, it comes on very slowly.

leon yagudayev

Well the car didn't smoke at all when I bought it and it didn't smoke when in brought it to the shop. It started to smoke when they turned it on before dropping trans. For a clutch replacement. That's when they did boroscope. I wish I could upload a video of smoke and boroscope. I have it. Maybe someone would like to see it and throw in their 5 cents. I really want to keep the car if it's financially feasible.

gnat

In other discussions it has been noted that there is an observation that bore scoring seems to be a more common issue in England/Europe that it is for us here in the US & Canada. For us Canada seems to get it the worst and even in the US the issue is predominately found in the areas that see the colder temps with the majority of reports happening in the spring time frame.

I seem to recall a semi-recent (last 6 months) discussion where Jake shared some thoughts about why some might see scoring while others don't (ours for example has been run in sub-zero temps every year of it's life and it's top end scope in the fall came back clean). I can't remember the details or the thread though

I haven't read before about scoring leading to chunking, but I know Jake is very adamant about not continuing to drive the car as it is just circulating fine particles throughout the motor which can lead to bigger issues.

AWDGuy

everyone's "financial feasibility" is different.

when I got this issue and asked some rennlisters what they did, a few of them said they bought another Porsche. lol.

that tells me most Porsche owners have a lot more money than I.

even at 15k+, it's been a very tough pill for me to swallow.


what are you willing to spend to get this car back on the road?

10k ish? go with a used motor

10-15k? rebuild on your own

15-20k ish, I'd be shipping my car off to flat six innovations.

don't want to spend anywhere near that? get rid of the car, suck it up and rethink the whole pcar ownership thing. sucks....buts that's the honest truth from me.

Ahsai

^What AWDGuy said. Do not do a cheap rebuild where they reuse everything. A decent rebuild has at least $7k parts in it that's not including re-sleeving. I have a 3 page part list in excel spreadsheet listing everything single seal and bolt that need to be replaced once the engine is opened up.

AWDGuy

maybe I imagined it. dunno...but it makes sense. especially after seeing my cylinders condition once it was pulled. if I kept at it, there wouldn't mu check cylinder walls left.

alpine003

This is on the cheap side relatively speaking as they are replacing the cylinder liners and if this is with steel sleeves, I believe those require custom pistons so make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

If the 13k price is indeed for a steel sleeve rebuild along with custom pistons, I can't see how boring to 3.8 would be that much more expensive considering you are already using new sleeves and pistons, assuming you are just enlarging the bore to get additional displacement instead of messing with the stroke(connecting rods) and possible the crankshaft as well.

This is sound advice. There's been at least a few members here with known bore scoring that have even tracked their cars and continue to drive them for a few years. As stated, I'm sure there are also many owners out there that are driving around with scored bores and not know it. This diagnosis or the need for any alarm can be further confusing caused by the owner's manual that oil loss can be normal between oil changes. This is direct from the manufacturer in the owner's manual and is common place unfortunately these days, especially among German brands.

Now if it smokes other than the occasional initial startup where you are puffing out smoke all the time when you're lightly accelerating or the motor is drinking oil at a high rate like a quart every 1k miles, that maybe a sign that it's gotten pretty bad to a point where rebuild maybe in order sooner than later.'

My $.02

leon yagudayev

Well don't get me wrong. I'm not delusional and this is not my first porsche. I had 944 turbo and a 928. I understand that it's a high maintanence car lol. I guess if i had it for a while and was attached to it I would not think twice to get the engine re done. It's just very traumatic after I spent almost 20K on the car to find out i need another 15 to get it right. That's all. That's why I'm weighing my options. Btw, they didn't get to check the condition of IMS bearing. The question to the esteemed group is as follows: given the situation with oil pooling and etc who probable is the IMS failure? Thanks again

Ahsai

Sorry but I don't get the question. IMS failure will not create smoke. If you choose to rebuild, IMS will need to be addressed anyway.

leon yagudayev

No, what I meant is would the condition of the engine cylinders such as increased oil consumption, burning oil etc affect the condition of the bearing. I read that alot of ims failures due to poor maintenance lack of oil changes in addition to bad initial design. I guess wht I'm trying to figure out if I was to drive the car like that until I get money to rebuild the engine or replace it would I have higher chance of IMS failure and then def be needing new motor without reusable core?

AWDGuy

I think that will depend on who you ask.

I can only speak from my own experience. I had major cylinder scoring on both cyl 4 & 6. major scoring. scoring you could feel very well and easily by scrapping your finger nail over the cylinder and the piston skirt.

the car was driven for a few thousand miles like this. when I look at the service history of my car, the previous owner complained of blue smoke in 2013. they changed the aos and he figured that was it.

the previous owner had the lne retrofit done in 2008 iirc. so quite a few miles on this bearing. the report came back showing the bearing was in excellent shape.

so, technically you could keep driving without causing major damage to the bearing but I'm sure theres a **** load of people shaking their head at that suggestion.

also keep in mind that oil passing through is killing your cats. go look at how much those are to replace.

Ahsai

Oh got it. Scored cylinder will shed cylinder material in the oil (very tough and shown up as Aluminum in the oil). The debris can destroy the other engine components depending on how good your oil filter is and how good the by-pass valve in the oil filter canister is (a bad or weak by-pass valve will allow some oil to go unfiltered during engine start up, for example). Then the contaminated oil will get to all the bearings, IMSB included (oil passes through the bearing seals).

Have they dropped the oil filter and oil pan? Those are a must to give more info for you to make an informed decision. If they find debris, you definitely do not want to keep driving the car.

Kalashnikov

Leon, did you buy your car on ebay? Your car and avatar picture look suspiciously close to the car below.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-finds-63.html

Porsche 911 911 40th Anniversary Edition Very RARE 3 6L 6 SPD | eBay Ebay listing : 172006392943

alpine003

I agree with this. However the million dollar question is what are you comfortable with as there are various stages of scoring which may or may not shed that much metal(to begin with at least). If you go the drive for now and save up for rebuild route, you can always try to minimize this by getting LN oil adapter, magnetic plug, guardian, and doing more frequent oil changes. I don't really advocate doing oil analysis(through Blackstone at least) as they only measure down to 30 microns generally as some say the most damage can be done from particles that are only between 5-15 microns. But either way you should drop your pan and finger your sump to see what you're working with and where you're currently at with the condition. Is your mechanic also able to take any pics of the walls with his borescope? If so, you may want to post that as well.

But am I understanding you correctly in that you only paid $20k for a 40th anniversay model? If so, that was a major red flag right there.

gnat

Oh man. Nice find Kalash. Inquiring minds would really like to know. I'd say I hope not, but I guess at this point it doesn't matter either way. Just sucks to be in leon's shoes no matter what