Paul Waterloo

I have read about camshaft position deviation readings, borrowed a friend's Autel MaxiDAS DS708 and took some measurements.

What I have found is that initially you get a higher deviation reading on bank 1 when cold, then it comes down as the engine warms up. I assume that this is due to parts expanding and taking up clearance / "slack" in the chain. I know there is no slack, but it does not have to adjust for it as much. The warmer the engine, the smaller the deviation.

Spec is with +/- 6.0 degrees, I am above that. My car presently has 37K miles. Would you do anything more than just continue to monitor it periodically?



The "actual" angle for camshaft was normal and would change over around 2,000 RPM or so. A few screen shots:



Now with RPM showing:





Actual angles don't change with engine RPM, except for the change over, they are constant within their range.

If you are interested in the tool I used, I am considering getting one of these used or new vs. a Durametic.

joe-1972

Very cool!

I must agree with the idea of some sort of "settling down" after a nice cold start that we would expect on a motor with how many moving parts?

I am shooting in the dark with this but since your numbers are very close I would say that most people would leave it alone and just monitor it.

Your motor is clean as a whistle (I have seen her) and unless you have seen anthing in the oil you are probably doing ok. If you eventualy go down the road to rebuild your motor some day budget for the nice LN Engineering's Billet Aluminum Tensioner Paddles...

-joe

Ahsai

The cam deviation values will be a little different every time you start the engine but as long as they hold steady and don't change with rpm, they are OK as long as the values are in spec. If they fluctuate with rpm, that means something is wobbling e.g., IMSB.

Now the -7 degree out of spec (+/- 6 degrees) means the cam pads have worn a bit (assuming your engine is stock and never has been opened). With 7 degrees out (measured at the crankshaft), that's 3.5 degrees out on the cam and you should be able to see that if you remove the cam plugs. Probably not worth opening the cam cover yet.

Flat6 Innovations

Looks like a 5 chain engine with +/- 40K miles, thats lived on M1 with factory wear pads. You are 2/3 the way to setting an out of range CEL with these values.

Paul Waterloo

Thanks Jake....changed to Joe Gibbs oil last oil change and will continue to run it and trend the camshaft readings. Pretty cool to do some predictive monitoring with that tool.

It is possible to change the pads without dismantling the motor?

alpine003

Interesting, so less than 40k motor has 2/3 the way of setting out of range CEL with the factory wear pads? If that's the case shouldn't most people see this CEL on motors with over 100k with their original wear pads that's been on M1 all it's life?

Flat6 Innovations

Driving style, oil services and etc have a tremendous amount to do with this. Driving the car at low speeds is the biggest contributor to this, along with extended oil services. The lower the speed the engine sees, the more load these units see, due to the position of the actuator that they operate with.

We've only had 6, 5 chain engines pass pre- evaluation for preventative packages in the last year because of this particular gripe. Its to the point now that I either send a prospective owner a scan tool to check these before they ship the car to us, or we have them get the ECU interrogation done locally before they ship the car. No use landing a car here from far away that we will down in the first 30 seconds of the pre- eval.

Its a little late to add the DT40 oil now, as the wear pads are already through the dermis, and epidermis layers, and into the softer material thats deeper within the wear pad. The wear progresses faster, as it digs deeper into the wear pad. Replacement pads have a much stronger, and harder epidermis layer, and resist wear greatly. This is especially so when better oils and surface coatings are applied to them.

alpine003

Thanks for the clarification. Considering my car has over 125k on original motor and original IMS using M1 all it's life, I guess it's doing pretty good then.

Just to clarify given Paul's case, if his car was at your place, would it fail prequal at this point?

Paul Waterloo

alpine: Do you know what your readings are? Is your car a MK1 or 2?

Flat6 Innovations

Yes. It would fail immediately. I'm not going to touch an engine that will set a valve train related fault anytime in the near future.

These deviations also can create issues where cam timing jumps during a procedure.

My max allowable is 5 degrees total deviation, but even with that I have a serious chat with the owner.

Paul Waterloo

I guess I'll have to figure out how easy or how hard it would be to replace the pad on the car.

Ahsai

Common advice is to drop the engine and I can totally see why. You need to remove the cam covers and the cams then re-time and engine afterwards. Will be hell working in situ.

Flat6 Innovations

I have done it in the car.. Can be done, but its a bitch and you can't work the assembly nearly as well.

joe-1972

Winter project Paul?
I'm up for helping out if I get a kitchen pass!

joe-1972

Thanks for the info Jake!
I need to check mine now...