IMS Replacement - to lock or not to lock the cams
#16
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Luccia,
It is not news to Pelican or Wayne !!!
Just ask Wayne.He graciously corrected himself on this issue recently.
JFP & I had this exact discussion with Wayne on your own Pelican Forum recently. Check posts by "Schnel Gelb" & JFP on your Forum.
The reason the Pelican procedure is wrong -it was originally written long ago when parts were difficult to obtain/expensive and there was less knowledge available.
Use the LN Instructions linked by Ahsai because failure to lock the cams can cause very expensive & totally needless damage.Pelican sell the cam lock tools -for a reason.
It is not news to Pelican or Wayne !!!
Just ask Wayne.He graciously corrected himself on this issue recently.
JFP & I had this exact discussion with Wayne on your own Pelican Forum recently. Check posts by "Schnel Gelb" & JFP on your Forum.
The reason the Pelican procedure is wrong -it was originally written long ago when parts were difficult to obtain/expensive and there was less knowledge available.
Use the LN Instructions linked by Ahsai because failure to lock the cams can cause very expensive & totally needless damage.Pelican sell the cam lock tools -for a reason.
![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
-Luccia
__________________
Your Trusted Source For DIY and Parts
FREE SHIPPING over $99 click here
Porsche Parts | DIY Tech Articles | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube | Promos
888.280.7799 | 6am - 5pm PST
![](https://rennlist.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic303_8.gif)
FREE SHIPPING over $99 click here
Porsche Parts | DIY Tech Articles | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube | Promos
888.280.7799 | 6am - 5pm PST
![](https://rennlist.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic303_8.gif)
#18
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Whoa folks, I think I just saw my AOS from below! Is that possible? Is it possible to reach and replace the AOS from below while I perform the clutch and IMS replacement? That would be a huge breakthrough since I noticed occasional white smoke at startup, and with 126,000 miles I want to replace the AOS.
Again, all of you have shared priceless information, THANK YOU ALL !!!
Again, all of you have shared priceless information, THANK YOU ALL !!!
#19
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
If you see me roaming around or have suggestions on anything definitely reach out and let me know. Wayne is a pretty busy man so that is why we are here!
![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
-Luccia
#20
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 5,906
Likes: 0
Received 1,166 Likes
on
746 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Whoa folks, I think I just saw my AOS from below! Is that possible? Is it possible to reach and replace the AOS from below while I perform the clutch and IMS replacement? That would be a huge breakthrough since I noticed occasional white smoke at startup, and with 126,000 miles I want to replace the AOS.
Again, all of you have shared priceless information, THANK YOU ALL !!!
Again, all of you have shared priceless information, THANK YOU ALL !!!
#21
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It is against Internet Law and Forum protocol to post a question that has nothing to do with the original topic! As a side note: if you're in there then do it. I've heard the main problem is getting the hoses disconnected from the AOS, but if you can wiggle your hand up there to pinch the connectors you are home free.
Thank you for the additional info.
#22
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Having said that, I added the following note to the article on March 16, 2015:
[March 2015 Update]
Since this article was originally published in 2010, there have been some useful updates to the IMS Bearing Removal and Installation Kit that facilitate an easier and safer installation of the bearing. When I originally wrote this article, the only method available to lock the camshafts was to use the original Porsche factory tools, which costs several hundred dollars at the time. Since then, the camshaft locking tools have been added to the bearing extractor / installation kit. The use of these tools reduces the need for the "set screw method". To use the tools and lock the camshafts, begin by simply setting the engine to Top Dead Center (Figure 132). Then remove the camshaft end covers on both sides (Figure 133). Install the camshaft locking tools (factory tool is shown in Figure 137, the aftermarket tool varies slightly in appearance). With the engine crankshaft locked at TDC, and the camshafts locked with respect to the crankshaft, this should reduce the chance of disturbing the engine timing almost down to zero. NOTE: the IMS shaft will still tend to move off-center when you remove the bearing cover due to the pull of the chains/tensioners, so if you can install one or more of the set screws to hold it in place, it would still be a wise idea.
Please ask any additional questions at the bottom of this article in the comments section.
Since this article was originally published in 2010, there have been some useful updates to the IMS Bearing Removal and Installation Kit that facilitate an easier and safer installation of the bearing. When I originally wrote this article, the only method available to lock the camshafts was to use the original Porsche factory tools, which costs several hundred dollars at the time. Since then, the camshaft locking tools have been added to the bearing extractor / installation kit. The use of these tools reduces the need for the "set screw method". To use the tools and lock the camshafts, begin by simply setting the engine to Top Dead Center (Figure 132). Then remove the camshaft end covers on both sides (Figure 133). Install the camshaft locking tools (factory tool is shown in Figure 137, the aftermarket tool varies slightly in appearance). With the engine crankshaft locked at TDC, and the camshafts locked with respect to the crankshaft, this should reduce the chance of disturbing the engine timing almost down to zero. NOTE: the IMS shaft will still tend to move off-center when you remove the bearing cover due to the pull of the chains/tensioners, so if you can install one or more of the set screws to hold it in place, it would still be a wise idea.
Please ask any additional questions at the bottom of this article in the comments section.
Thanks!
-Wayne
#23
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hi everyone. As I mentioned in the threads on Pelican, I have not heard from anyone who has had issues with the timing jumping after reading our article. After I pressed some people who claimed this, they admitted that they just had people who screwed it up and had *assumed* that they had read the article. If you follow the procedures carefully, it works fine and you shouldn't have any problems. I also insist that you check the timing when you're done just to make sure that you didn't make any mistakes.
Having said that, I added the following note to the article on March 16, 2015:
Unfortunately, I just checked the website, and it would appear that this correction did not get incorporated into our new page update (they must have pulled the data prior to me posting the update), so that info has been missing for the past month or so. I will instruct them to re-add it asap.
Thanks!
-Wayne
Having said that, I added the following note to the article on March 16, 2015:
Unfortunately, I just checked the website, and it would appear that this correction did not get incorporated into our new page update (they must have pulled the data prior to me posting the update), so that info has been missing for the past month or so. I will instruct them to re-add it asap.
Thanks!
-Wayne
Thank you for jumping in and for sharing your revision with us. I will look at your tech articles again to see if the March update shows up - Hopefully before this weekend, which is when I will be performing the "operation".
Regardless, your articles have been extremely helpful, and for that I am extremely grateful!
Thank you!
#24
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hi everyone. As I mentioned in the threads on Pelican, I have not heard from anyone who has had issues with the timing jumping after reading our article. After I pressed some people who claimed this, they admitted that they just had people who screwed it up and had *assumed* that they had read the article. If you follow the procedures carefully, it works fine and you shouldn't have any problems. I also insist that you check the timing when you're done just to make sure that you didn't make any mistakes.
Having said that, I added the following note to the article on March 16, 2015:
Unfortunately, I just checked the website, and it would appear that this correction did not get incorporated into our new page update (they must have pulled the data prior to me posting the update), so that info has been missing for the past month or so. I will instruct them to re-add it asap.
Thanks!
-Wayne
Having said that, I added the following note to the article on March 16, 2015:
Unfortunately, I just checked the website, and it would appear that this correction did not get incorporated into our new page update (they must have pulled the data prior to me posting the update), so that info has been missing for the past month or so. I will instruct them to re-add it asap.
Thanks!
-Wayne
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...MS_Bearing.htm
#25
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I hate to revive a probably already hammered thread but please have patience in the following newbie question. I am planning to replace the IMS flange to repair a slow leak from that area on my 06 C2S. For this procedure do I need to lock the cams since I am only replacing the flange and not touching the IMSB? (Of course I wouldnt be able to replace the IMSB without splitting engine open anyway
Thanks in advance!
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#26
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Definitely, plus you also need to remove the bank 1 chain tensioner and the IMS chain tensioner. Both on the flywheel side.
You may also want to consider removing the outer seal of the IMSB while you are there.
You may also want to consider removing the outer seal of the IMSB while you are there.
I hate to revive a probably already hammered thread but please have patience in the following newbie question. I am planning to replace the IMS flange to repair a slow leak from that area on my 06 C2S. For this procedure do I need to lock the cams since I am only replacing the flange and not touching the IMSB? (Of course I wouldnt be able to replace the IMSB without splitting engine open anyway
Thanks in advance!
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#27
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Personally I don't think it's necessary to lock the cams or remove the chain tensioner. I just successfully completed the IMS bearing replacement myself and learned that the bearing fits inside the shaft. Based on that, my thought is that I don't see how anything could shift by simply replacing the flange. You do, however, need to be careful not to mess up the bolt that goes in from the inside of the bearing - otherwise you'll be performing an IMS bearing replacement, meaning that you WOULD need to lock the cams and drop the tensioners.
You might get conflicting answers on this - I'm just using my personal opinion on this...Good luck!
You might get conflicting answers on this - I'm just using my personal opinion on this...Good luck!
#28
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
You must not have seen those "Help! My IMS is not centered!" threads ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Usually go like this
"Did you turn crank to TDC cyl#, lock the cams and remove the two tensioners before you remove the flange?"
"Oops....no. Are you supposed to?"
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Usually go like this
"Did you turn crank to TDC cyl#, lock the cams and remove the two tensioners before you remove the flange?"
"Oops....no. Are you supposed to?"
Personally I don't think it's necessary to lock the cams or remove the chain tensioner. I just successfully completed the IMS bearing replacement myself and learned that the bearing fits inside the shaft. Based on that, my thought is that I don't see how anything could shift by simply replacing the flange. You do, however, need to be careful not to mess up the bolt that goes in from the inside of the bearing - otherwise you'll be performing an IMS bearing replacement, meaning that you WOULD need to lock the cams and drop the tensioners.
You might get conflicting answers on this - I'm just using my personal opinion on this...Good luck!
You might get conflicting answers on this - I'm just using my personal opinion on this...Good luck!
#29
Former Vendor
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
If you didn't pull any tensioners, lock any cams, or even put the engine at TDC before removing the IMSB flange, and you didn't jump time, and were able to R&R the IMSB, you better go play the lottery.
You better go play it right now.
the reason things can shift is the IMSB flange centers the IMSB and carries loads from the IMS tensioner paddle (placed directly onto the IMS main drive chain) as well as the valve spring loads from bank 1 valve train.
Anytime a flange is to be removed, you must treat the procedure exactly the same as an IMSR process. If not, you'll pay for it.
3 chain engines are especially critical, they have very little chain wrap onto the exhaust cam sprocket.
You better go play it right now.
the reason things can shift is the IMSB flange centers the IMSB and carries loads from the IMS tensioner paddle (placed directly onto the IMS main drive chain) as well as the valve spring loads from bank 1 valve train.
Anytime a flange is to be removed, you must treat the procedure exactly the same as an IMSR process. If not, you'll pay for it.
3 chain engines are especially critical, they have very little chain wrap onto the exhaust cam sprocket.
#30
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I won't be playing the lotto. I'm not THAT lucky. I have to clarify that I did lock the cams at TDC and I removed the tensioners as instructed when I replaced my IMS bearing. I just didn't realize that procedure would also be required to simply replace the flange. I guess I was wrong about that. Sorry folks...