MiamiC70

Every request For verifiable data from Jake usually results in one excuse or another why he cannot provide it. Just makes me wonder.

johnireland

I don't think a mechanical discussion should become a forum for personal attacks. We have enough of Jake's customers here...people who he has spent hours on the phone with to give advice and help...that I don't think he has to prove himself to anyone.

To me the IMS is like my prostate...it might be a little large but the stream is strong so at this time I'll just wait and see.

dporto

^way more info than I needed John^ ...

MiamiC70

Not attacking anyone. A lot of statements as "fact" with no proof to back them up. I would just rather have verifiable facts than rectoric. So while I don't doubt he may know his way around a 996 engine I read a lot of the latter and very little of the former and question any business that operates on FUD and rhetoric as their marketng strategy.

Flat6 Innovations

Its not any excuse at all.. Put simply, no one has helped us pay the time and money required to gather it. I certainly won't give it away.

I have learned that the more I share, the more people can't handle it, and the more friction ends up occurring.

Ryan...

As someone who has been researching a 996 Carrera as my next car, I can honestly say the fear of an IMS failure is very real to those of us who've never had the pleasure of owning a Porsche.

I know exactly 1 person who had a 996. What happened to it? The IMS gave up and his motor was toast. Now, I understand how the forum game works; for every IMS failure thread there are thousands of people who are driving around with no worries/concerns.

When I bought my M5 everyone talked about carbon build up. Never an issue for me.
When I bought my M3, everyone talked about bushings/crappy interior, etc.. Never an issue for me.

All that being said, the cars in my price range are going to be in the 75-100k mile range, or, in the $15-20k price range. The last thing I want is a $15k bill for a new motor, I simply couldn't afford that currently. With that frame of mind, a $1k bearing seems like a relative bargain especially if installing a new clutch and having everything torn apart anyway.


Does anyone have links to aftermarket bearings failing?

vargas

Ryan, get a PPI from a reputable gear head and ask them to splice the oil filter and be willing to cover an oil change obviously for the seller if you don't buy it in the case there is any signs of metal in the filter. This should be your base starting point.

Ryan...

I've almost always gotten a PPI on cars where I'm spending more than $5k

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd still likely get an aftermarket bearing installed if I was going to be doing the clutch, just in case..

prosled8

The good news is, at 75-100k miles many of the cars you are looking at have had the service done, or they will need it soon. That is clutch mileage for many of these cars and more and more owners are having the retrofit done. If it hasn't been done use ~$3000 as your starting point for a deferred maintenance discount off the asking price. 99% of sellers know to expect this on this model.


You guys questioning Jake need to do some more reading. He has nothing but sterling references from the community. He has done more to help save these engines than anyone on the planet. My guess is that by now he has no need to actively market fear in order to make a living. The facts/failures are out there and certainly as the cars age we will see a rise in those failures. This guy is a huge asset! Let us foster that relationship rather than snap at the hand trying to help.

Gonzo911

No offense to Ryan, but this is where 996 ownership is headed. These "new" owners can afford a $20,000 car but can't afford the possible cost of ownership. This is why the IMS Paranoia is increasing.

If my budget for a car was $15k-$20k, my concerns about the possibility of dropping the same money to replace the engine would certainly keep me up at night,

But the chances of that catastrophe are very slim.

What is a real possibility however (and this is assuming you are not a DIY'er) are the things that can and will fail eventually. $1,200 AOS replacement, $1,300 Water Pumps and $1,000 window regulators would have me counting sheep as well.

Hell, at many times in my life, so would a $180 oil change.

prosled8

Of course you can halve those costs if you are willing to DIY. The fact is though, many of the parts ARE quite expensive, just bumbling around on the web I discovered a ~$580 power steering pump. I am not saying they fail, just that if something does, it gets painful quickly.

These are still a GREAT buy, just be prepared for some 10-15 year old car issues now and then, and hedge you bets against engine failures to your budget and fear level. Heck, some days I get so worried I consider getting Raby's list of common failure modes and fixes and budgeting some or all of them in. Some days I realize that finding a good car, making sure it is a known starting point (PPI) and continued maint., are probably all I need for a positive used 996 experience.

I have decided in my searches over the last month or two to increase my initial purchase price in order to find a very nice example. The 75-100k $15-20k cars almost all have long lists of work needing to be done, not all but most I have seen.

alpine003

THE #1 flaw I still see on these forums is still making the IMS the main convenient scapegoat. While I don't doubt there have been some primary IMS driven failures, there's been far less proper diagnosis done on a blown motor. In the past(and present), there's just not been enough qualified(or not lazy) individuals to get to the root cause of it. IMS to me is like a witch hunt where anything suspicious is automatically being tagged with it being at fault. Also in the past, dealers hardly took motors apart to diagnose and fix them but rather replaced them. If just replacing them and sending broken motor back to the factory, how can one honestly make any kind of diagnosis?

I find it ironic that peeps place so much emphasis and worry about a material thing that can be replaced.

Yet the same people do not worry about their healths like they do with the IMS, even though the chances might be greater in something happening in some circumstances.

Oh gawd, I must be bored as I just got suckered into another IXX discussion.

prosled8

Well that is not exactly true as near as I can tell. There is a website and facetube page full of blown up, disassembled, diagnosed motors out there. There is a list of fixes for common failures, rod bolts, slipped sleeves, IMS, chains/tensioners/guides. We DO know how they fail, there are some fixes because the ground work has been done with NO help from the manufacturer. As you rightfully mentioned, Porsche replaced a slew of engines for things as minor as RMS issues and never revealed ANY failure statistics. Then they proceeded to re-man a bunch of garbage and send those back into the pool. It is a pretty big mess from what I have read.

So the gist of all of it is, the engine is flawed, it could blow up. If it does, it will nearly double your investment in the vehicle. IMSB is certainly proven to be an issue, one of the most easily solved issues that can contribute to the big bang. People would be wise to read up on the rest of the issues too. Seems that wasn't working out so well though and unfortunately much of the knowledge has been removed from the interweb. This driven by a bunch that hasn't lived the failure...yet. It is a very legitimate concern not matter how hard some try to play it down. As these cars continue to age it will become an even bigger concern.

I think it is insane to try and argue that only a few percent of cars will ever be affected. There looks to be some major quality control issues during this era with regards to cost cutting on engine manufacturing. I think there are a LOT more failures to come. I do not believe for a second that it is as random as some say.

Ryan...

So you don't buy any car unless you can afford a repair totaling the value of the purchase price

I recently sold my 10th BMW that I purchased, by myself. I'm a hands on, DIY kind of guy, I believe in preventative maintenance, and I typically replace parts BEFORE they start failing, often with superior parts if available. You dont own 10 BMWs (including 3 M cars) by being a moron and paying dealerships to change your oil and replace parts.

I *assume* any car I buy will need the following repairs within 10k miles of purchasing: clutch, suspension components, brakes, and all fluids. Why do I do that? So there are no surprises and I'm not let down IF any/some of the aforementioned parts fail. I account for the possibility that I may get hit with a $2-3k bill at any time, but if I can spend $1k to prevent the possibility of a $15k bill? Well, that's worth it to me, even though I know it's a slim chance of happening. The IMS isn't going to scare me away from buying the car, but I respect the possibility it could ruin the car for me in an expensive and catastrophic way.


I liken this repair to that of the e46 M3 sub frames which are notoriously weak. If you let the car reach the point where it starts tearing you're looking at up to an $8k repair bill. Now, you can take a chance and let it be, or you can spend $400 on a subframe reinforcement kit, plus $600 for a shop to weld it in and save yourself the possibility of a huge repair bill for a known weakness. Again, I would do that repair just for the peace of mind in knowing my car is much more likely not to have issues in the future..

JD ARTHUR

Ryan, you will notice there are two predominant opinions on here. Some think the IMSB should be replaced if not already done as soon as possible. Others think replacing the IMSB is not needed and is just giving in to fear fostered on the forum. It only matters what you think as to the course of action you take.