aggravation

Just a hypothetical excercise.

I have a 2003 C4S with just under 100,000 miles. It is in good condition, better than good really.

I was just wondering, if I lost the engine it would be worth @$5000 as a roller?
If I bought a $20,000 replacement from a reputable builder like Jake Raby at the point of making that decision to buy the new engine I would effectively be putting $25,000 into the 2003 C4S with a new, really well built engine. Since either way I will have lost the balance between the initial purchase and the roller value...

I don't know of another car I'd prefer for $25,000. But how much would it sell for after that in today's market?

c4racer

Under $20k probably

FRUNKenstein

I would estimate the car with the new engine would be worth maybe $2,000 or $3,000 more than it was worth right before the engine imploded. So if your car was worth $20,000 with the old engine, then figure $22,000 or $23,000 with the new. Buyers don't seem to value the low mileage on the engine - they focus on the odometer.
That being said, it might be worth more to the "right" buyer, but it will probably take awhile to find him.
My car has 73,000 less miles on the engine than on the chassis. I've had a couple of people approach me interested in buying it (I've never tried to sell it), but they lose interest when I tell them the miles on the chassis. They are shocked that it has so many miles because it looks like a low mileage car, but they don't care that it has only 74,000 on the engine. To me, it's a Mk I factory aero car with full leather, with some great very tasteful mods, IMSB swapped, all sorted out, nice color combo (black on black) and in great condition. To them, it's just a high mileage car.
That's why I'll probably never sell it - what could I replace it with for the (maybe) $17,000 I'd get out of it on the market? It's worth more than that to me.

JD ARTHUR

I think if you had a JR reconstruction motor with his upgrades and a car that looked like it had low mileage on the exterior and interior you could get at least 26000, probably more. You would have to find the right buyer but probably not as hard as some think. It really depends on how the car looks more than anything else. Any car under thirty grand is not that hard to sell, you just need the guy that loves the way it looks, after that the Jake Raby upgrade will close the deal. Thats my opinion and I been buying, trading and selling cars and bikes all my life.

c4racer

I value a car with a replaced motor at less than if it had the original. At least in general. Also I would not want a Reman M96 with the sealed IMSB necessarily. Would rather have the old design with a LN bearing.

5CHN3LL

A 996 with a rebuilt motor is going to sell for the same as a 996 with the original motor, unless you happen to find another person who (a) really values the Raby motor, and (b) is willing to overlook the fact that the motor has blown at least once.

Forum people are going to say that the Raby motor will add value - but likely it won't be forum people answering your Craigslist/Autotrader/whatever ad for a 10-15 year old 911 on its second engine.

IF you are willing to hold the car while looking for a buyer, you could probably eventually find one (by advertising in Pano/whatever), using the Raby engine as a feature. If you sell to Joe Schmo, or CarMacks, or whatever, nobody will care who rebuilt the engine - only that it's a 911 without matching numbers (because the unwashed masses care about that kind of stuff)...

PS Just read an oil and oil change thread in the 991 forum. It's nice to see that people are stupid everywhere.

Macster

Can't help you with the roller value question. The value of these cars in various states of repair vary too much.

If the car became a roller you'd just have to get a quote at that time.

Any premium having a rebuilt engine installed would be dependent upon who did the rebuilding, what if any warranty came with the engine, and the condition (and desirability) of the rest of the car.

Some here could very well value the car at a premium above an otherwise identical car with the factory engine currently exhibiting no signs of any trouble and with a history of good servicing.

Other shoppers might just turn and run when you mentioned "rebuilt", as they would not feel qualified to judge the value of the rebuilt engine and thus to make things simpler go seek out another car with no "story" with it.

The issue becomes you are not just selling an untouched car you are selling a car and a rebuilt engine. You would have to prepare a sales pitch and backed with some hardcopy of just what a JR rebuilt engine could bring to the table. But as I touched upon above most buyers would just hear blah blah engine rebuilt blah blah and run away.

WalterRohrl

I bought my car 5000 miles after it had a new Porsche Reman'd engine installed by a dealer as part of their CPO process before they sold it to the guy I bought it from.

I don't think I ended up paying more than I would have if it still had an original engine in it but I certainly valued it higher, if for nothing else than A) I had more details about the engine's history and B) It included all of the attached ancillaries, thus resulting in (theoretically at least) less repair items as I knew the alternator, waterpump etc were all less than 5000 miles old as well. The non-replacable bearing doesn't bother me as I just drive it as recommended (not granny-style) and overall the later bearings are supposedly better.

That being said, my AOS is currently weeping a little bit and I did have to replace a bad idler puller, all with less than 20,000 miles on the engine, so who knows...

If I was in your situation and if I needed a replacement engine, I would just sell the car as is and replace the whole car or look around and see if a replacement stock engine is available quickly. Not worth the wait or cost for a Raby engine unless you really plan to enjoy the car afterward. If you did however get a Raby engine I imagine that when it came time to sell Raby would also let people know of your car's availability if someone inquired about his services but was put off by his backlog...

aggravation

Fortunately my car is fine. I was just playing out in my mind what my most likely course of action would be if I was unlucky enough to lose my engine.

I think my choice would be to try to buy a 'better-than-factory-new' engine to get back on the road.
I may be mistaken but I think the pricing was just over $20,000 for a replacement that would have the nikasil cylinder treatment and some form of upgraded IMSB solution.

Unless the roller value of my car after engine failure was well above $7000 I wouldn't imagine, dollar for dollar, that I could buy a replacement car that I would value as much as my chassis with a strong fresh engine in it that was 'better-than-new' would cost. I would use the time to freshen up the chassis as the engine was built...

The actual resale potential wouldn't weigh into my decision much but I was curious about it anyway.
It's funny, after coming to this realization I have a little less concern about being unlucky. Just a little less.

Cuda911

Once I get the new engine in my car, I'll face this same issue eventually. But, I have no plans to sell the car in the immediate future. By then, it will be a classic, so the new motor won't matter any more.

prosled8

I am looking at this a little differently. It seems you have the ability to come up with $20-25k cash for a Raby motor. You also have a car that is easily worth another $20-25k as a trade. $40-50k gets you into a nice 997.2 or a nice low mile 996 turbo. Either of those choices seem much better from a financial standpoint to me that spending $20k on an engine for a $25k car.

As an educated potential buyer, I would place a fair amount of value in a Raby reconstructed motor but, try real hard not to pay for it. It would set the car apart in a market full of non Raby motor cars. You might not get much of a premium but, I bet your car would sell much more quickly than the competition.

Flat6 Innovations

Nope, unless you want to keep the car for years, or forever, my engine doesn't make sense. If you do want to keep it forever, then my engine is the only thing that makes sense.

Search around and you'll see that a car with my engine never comes up for sale. I can think of two in the last 5 years, one of those was crashed and the other owner had fallen prey to the economy and had to sell the car.

My backlog turns few people away, in fact since we break payments down into 1/3s (initial, mid term and full term) people tend to appreciate the delay for cash flow purposes. To do these engines the way that we do, and to take all the time with them that they require, also requires a back log.

aggravation

It isnt that I'm willing to allocate 40-45 thousand for my "fun car". The $23,500 I have in it is what I had planned to spend with a reserve for the usual maintenance.

However, if I was faced with a sudden engine loss I think I would still want to have a 'fun car'...so I ran through the possible choices I would be left with and realized I would have to go another $22,000+ in the hole to come up with one. I could sell the roller and put that $5000 toward another crap shoot car to keep total cost down some but 'once bitten twice shy' is my way in those situations so that doesn't sound good.

Faced with that scenario, putting down the deposit and waiting for the new engine seems to be the way to get the most for the money and the time spent waiting would work for my budget limitations like Jake alluded to.

As for the resale, it was a point of curiosity really, to see where the forum members would price a car like that.
If I went down this path it would be my last car and hopefully last my lifetime. At age 55 that seems quite possible.

I guess if I was really afraid of catastrophe I'd sell it now and save towards the $40,000 car. Or trade it in and take on payments for the balance. But that isnt what I planned for.
My 'Plan A' is to not have to buy a new engine/car, not have any payments or lay out $40,000+ for my toy but instead do the IMSB with the upgrade before too long. Heavy emphasis and fingers crossed in the qualifier of "too long".

By gambling I get the car now, paid for, soon with upgraded IMSB, for under $30,000 total, and drive it in the meantime with the stereo off, ear to the engine and a careful watch on the oil analysis and filter, etc.

Maybe just a different way of driving like a fool, not sure, hope I never know for sure.
I've already looked at the map and north of Jakes shop is some really really good road for a long winding drive home so I'm hoping to do that with the IMSB upgrade soon....with the stereo loud and a smile on my face.

Flat6 Innovations

Some people want an engine that they can't buy from Porsche, or anywhere else. They love the car, and they want to make it unique; so what it's "worth" is to them is more than a blue book value.

I have a guy now who has a 200,000 mile Boxster, and he is spending 20K on an engine for a car that has a book value of less than 8K.

DTMiller

You don't lose the value of the roller.