Flat6 Innovations

Yep. This engine is a 2012 and has 4,160 miles on it. Never had its first oil change, never went to the track.

mikeborden

I'm a little more interested now.

Were there any telltale signs?

Is this your personal car or someone else's?

Flat6 Innovations

This is a customer's engine. It came here for a 4.2L elective build. The car had no symptoms at all, but on the dyno it did make 20HP less than it should have. I personally disassembled it and found this.

It didn't mater, the bore size went from 97mm to 104mm, so those scratches were machines out with the original cylinders when they were chopped into chips by a CNC mill.

Imo000

Is this the engine that was missimg the oil pick up tube O ring?

Flat6 Innovations

It was missing the O ring... BUT so has every 12 and 13 model we've seen.. The 14 model we just pulled apart last week was missing it as well and even the profile strips that seal the oil pump to the block.

After almost a year of searching we found that these O rings were omitted in the 9a1 engines after November of 11. No one knows why and it took months for it to show up as omitted in the Porsche PET system.

mikeborden

Ok, this is getting really crazy interesting.

This sounds like it could have been not enough oil getting to those cylinders or something with the omitted oring. Is that possible?

at 4000 miles and scoring, that's not good. Either some machanically was wrong(like the oring thing) or the customer(not trying to bash, just saying) wasn't properly warming up the engine before putting the hammer down.

Either way, that's a little scary!

jumper5836

So its suppose to not have it, so not the cause of the scrapes?

Flat6 Innovations

All engines we worked with earlier, with a manufacture date prior to 11/11 had the O ring. This engine did not have them, and according to directives it wasn't supposed to have it. There was another O ring that was missing in this engine, between the case halves.

Whats the difference between the O ring that was omitted and the one that we found missing between the case halves? Well, we didn't mention to the dealer that that one was missing. To date all directives sow that O ring in place.

The O ring in the secondary oil system (the omitted one) being missing could create foamy oil which reduces the boundary layer protection that lubricates and protects the cylinders/ pistons.

The other 5 cylinders of this engine were worn as well. Here's an example, and note how clean the piston still is... We are not the only ones who have seen this, our partner in Germany has also seen it.

Imo000

Ok so the scoring was not from the omited oil pick up O ring but from the pistons beng too tight or something else?

Flat6 Innovations

It's not conclusive enough to post. All that matters is that it's a 4.2 now with Nikisil cylinders:-)

jumper5836

Only one example, so doesn't seem like a real issue.

Nikisil or Nikasil?

Anyways I'd like to see the dyno on that after.

Imo000

I think it matter because when this was first posted it was pretty clearly stated that Porsche Fd up leaving the O ring out and that's why the cylinders got scored. I don't remember reading anything until now that this probably is not the case anymore. Now the same picture is used to discuss piston clearances and cold starts in low temperature but that isn't confirmed either. This is getting very confusing. If you don't know what caused the scoring then just say it. There is nothing wrong with that.

Flat6 Innovations

At the time I found the missing O ring EVERY engine we had worked with to date had it and did not have this issue. Then we see this engine with the second lowest mileage of any 9a1 that we'd interfaced with internally (the lowest had 11 miles) and had the most wear. The Porsche PET system showed the O ring in place on all engines at that time, and even in its most recent update at that time still did not show it.

Since the O ring COULD lead to diminished effectiveness of the anti- foaming section of the secondary oil system, and since foamy oil can be hell on boundary layer protection from oil, it was plausible that the two were related. It still is today, BUT the difference is now Porsche has released a TSB stating that the O ring and profile strip are both omitted purposely.

The latest 9a1 we have delved into is a '14 that had 20 miles on it when we received the engine. It was missing the O ring and profile strip, but it did have the O ring between the case halves.

Thus far the 2012 engine that had the scoring is the only engine we've seen that was missing the case half O ring, and thus far no TSB has been issued on that one being omitted and the Pet shows it there as well. Perhaps that O ring was the cause. Maybe not? There's no way for it to be occlusive unless we see this over and over again, which won't happen until the cars are out of warranty. While under warranty if the engine has an issue its generally ripped out and shipped to Germany where the issue is never divulged.

The problem with doing things first is there's no lifeline and no one to ask. When we called the dealer to tell them of missing parts inside the engine, the first thing they said was "why did you take it apart". I responded in a smart *** manner "Because you're people didn't make it big enough". They know me and know that if a car comes here under warranty, it won't be under warranty when it leaves.

Imo000

I understand the reason why the O ring was originally blamed as many of us would have done the same thing but I feel there should be an update to that post stating what you just wrote above. Herefore when someone reads it, thre would have a more accurate picture of what could and couldn't have happened in that case. They way it sits right now, that thread points the finger at the O ring that might not be the reason for those scored cylinders.

Flat6 Innovations

At the same time it could be, and the omission could have had negatives that were not known when the O ring was removed.

We just got the news a few weeks ago about the O ring and I still have unanswered questions pending about why it was removed. The same for the profile strip sealing the oil pump.