996 - a step child?
08-15-2013, 06:58 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
I love them anyway, but all 911's are 'disaster' cars by any unemotional standard.
Every single generation had significant issues both mechanically and with public perception in comparison to whatever beloved 911 it replaced.
On air-cooled cars, the list goes on and on. Just a few examples include broken head studs, soft valves and valve guides, exploding airboxes, crappy chain tensioners, unstoppable oil leaks, dis-functional air conditioning, sloppy shifting, early failure on gearbox syncros, significant cosmetic and structural rust issues, terrible starters, failing ignition switches and ground cables, sagging door hinges, finicky fuel injection, unreliable oil level gauges, failing electric windows, etc. etc. etc. Many of these problems are quite expensive to address.
Despite a small minority of folks on this forum who constantly feed the gloom and doom mentality, the 996 is a much more reliable car with lower cost of ownership than any 911 before it, all while providing higher performance levels and comfort. I wonder how these 996 G&D'ers would have coped with rust issues in long-noses, the problem set of early 911 SC's or the 993's notorious valve issues.
If there was a fundamental fault of the 996, it is that it was too good. It broke the 'enthusiast car' paradigm and became a car for anybody with a medium to fat checkbook. Too easy to drive, too reasonably priced, too reliable, too comfortable, and too many made. All resulting in too many sold to non-enthusiast owners just looking for a sporty status car (as evidenced by the huge number of tiptronic cab's)
As long as 996's are viewed as enthusiast cars along with all other 911's, they are fantastic. Easily the best Porsche you can get for under $30K if you aren't looking for a garage queen.
Every single generation had significant issues both mechanically and with public perception in comparison to whatever beloved 911 it replaced.
On air-cooled cars, the list goes on and on. Just a few examples include broken head studs, soft valves and valve guides, exploding airboxes, crappy chain tensioners, unstoppable oil leaks, dis-functional air conditioning, sloppy shifting, early failure on gearbox syncros, significant cosmetic and structural rust issues, terrible starters, failing ignition switches and ground cables, sagging door hinges, finicky fuel injection, unreliable oil level gauges, failing electric windows, etc. etc. etc. Many of these problems are quite expensive to address.
Despite a small minority of folks on this forum who constantly feed the gloom and doom mentality, the 996 is a much more reliable car with lower cost of ownership than any 911 before it, all while providing higher performance levels and comfort. I wonder how these 996 G&D'ers would have coped with rust issues in long-noses, the problem set of early 911 SC's or the 993's notorious valve issues.
If there was a fundamental fault of the 996, it is that it was too good. It broke the 'enthusiast car' paradigm and became a car for anybody with a medium to fat checkbook. Too easy to drive, too reasonably priced, too reliable, too comfortable, and too many made. All resulting in too many sold to non-enthusiast owners just looking for a sporty status car (as evidenced by the huge number of tiptronic cab's)
As long as 996's are viewed as enthusiast cars along with all other 911's, they are fantastic. Easily the best Porsche you can get for under $30K if you aren't looking for a garage queen.
08-15-2013, 07:08 PM
#47
Why would you pick an image of a modified, wide-body, aero-kitted 993 (particularly one with 996 turbo twists on it) to defend the basic styling of a 993?
Sure looks like it to me.
Last edited by KrazyK; 04-27-2016 at 10:26 AM.
08-15-2013, 07:11 PM
#48
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
I've educated myself plenty. The 928 has timing belts, and half of the motors are interference. That alone is silly (and yes, its silly when ferrari does it). Water pump impellars score the block. Oiling. GTS oil burning.
Show me a 928 owner that doesn't have a spare shortblock sitting around and I'll be surprised.
Superior how? They are more spacious, more comfortable, and have better air conditioning. Beyond that...well...I got nothing. Don't even get me started on the Pasha interior, which looks like a bad acid trip. way to go 70s
Now, you threw a supercharger on your car and it will keep up with 996TTs. I threw a blower and some other **** onto a POS mustang and it would keep up with an Enzo till nearly 200 mph. That means what?
The body looks like a door stop with a lump of mozzerlla welded onto the back. How you think it looks modern, I have no idea. P.s. its not a supercar.
Show me a 928 owner that doesn't have a spare shortblock sitting around and I'll be surprised.
Superior how? They are more spacious, more comfortable, and have better air conditioning. Beyond that...well...I got nothing. Don't even get me started on the Pasha interior, which looks like a bad acid trip. way to go 70s
Now, you threw a supercharger on your car and it will keep up with 996TTs. I threw a blower and some other **** onto a POS mustang and it would keep up with an Enzo till nearly 200 mph. That means what?
The body looks like a door stop with a lump of mozzerlla welded onto the back. How you think it looks modern, I have no idea. P.s. its not a supercar.
08-15-2013, 07:12 PM
#49
It seems the 993 is really the perfect car for you... You hate the M96 engine, plus you never drive your car and want a perfectly detailed specimen sitting inside the garage.
Imre, youve been here 10 years and you have to ask this?
Do you judge and put down people based on no first hand experience like you do with cars?
08-15-2013, 07:20 PM
#50
Race Director
To clarify, the 996 does NOT share its front end with the Boxster. Rather, it is the other way around: it's the Boxster that shares its front end with the 996. The 996 was designed first. As a cost-saving measure, the later Boxster was adapted from some 996 components.
Oh, and for a $3 roll of shelf paper and a razor blade, instant oval headlights for the 996! (at least that's what it looks like this guy did):
Oh, and for a $3 roll of shelf paper and a razor blade, instant oval headlights for the 996! (at least that's what it looks like this guy did):
08-15-2013, 07:53 PM
#51
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I love them anyway, but all 911's are 'disaster' cars by any unemotional standard.
Every single generation had significant issues both mechanically and with public perception in comparison to whatever beloved 911 it replaced.
On air-cooled cars, the list goes on and on. Just a few examples include broken head studs, soft valves and valve guides, exploding airboxes, crappy chain tensioners, unstoppable oil leaks, dis-functional air conditioning, sloppy shifting, early failure on gearbox syncros, significant cosmetic and structural rust issues, terrible starters, failing ignition switches and ground cables, sagging door hinges, finicky fuel injection, unreliable oil level gauges, failing electric windows, etc. etc. etc. Many of these problems are quite expensive to address.
Despite a small minority of folks on this forum who constantly feed the gloom and doom mentality, the 996 is a much more reliable car with lower cost of ownership than any 911 before it, all while providing higher performance levels and comfort. I wonder how these 996 G&D'ers would have coped with rust issues in long-noses, the problem set of early 911 SC's or the 993's notorious valve issues.
If there was a fundamental fault of the 996, it is that it was too good. It broke the 'enthusiast car' paradigm and became a car for anybody with a medium to fat checkbook. Too easy to drive, too reasonably priced, too reliable, too comfortable, and too many made. All resulting in too many sold to non-enthusiast owners just looking for a sporty status car (as evidenced by the huge number of tiptronic cab's)
As long as 996's are viewed as enthusiast cars along with all other 911's, they are fantastic. Easily the best Porsche you can get for under $30K if you aren't looking for a garage queen.
Every single generation had significant issues both mechanically and with public perception in comparison to whatever beloved 911 it replaced.
On air-cooled cars, the list goes on and on. Just a few examples include broken head studs, soft valves and valve guides, exploding airboxes, crappy chain tensioners, unstoppable oil leaks, dis-functional air conditioning, sloppy shifting, early failure on gearbox syncros, significant cosmetic and structural rust issues, terrible starters, failing ignition switches and ground cables, sagging door hinges, finicky fuel injection, unreliable oil level gauges, failing electric windows, etc. etc. etc. Many of these problems are quite expensive to address.
Despite a small minority of folks on this forum who constantly feed the gloom and doom mentality, the 996 is a much more reliable car with lower cost of ownership than any 911 before it, all while providing higher performance levels and comfort. I wonder how these 996 G&D'ers would have coped with rust issues in long-noses, the problem set of early 911 SC's or the 993's notorious valve issues.
If there was a fundamental fault of the 996, it is that it was too good. It broke the 'enthusiast car' paradigm and became a car for anybody with a medium to fat checkbook. Too easy to drive, too reasonably priced, too reliable, too comfortable, and too many made. All resulting in too many sold to non-enthusiast owners just looking for a sporty status car (as evidenced by the huge number of tiptronic cab's)
As long as 996's are viewed as enthusiast cars along with all other 911's, they are fantastic. Easily the best Porsche you can get for under $30K if you aren't looking for a garage queen.
08-15-2013, 08:12 PM
#52
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This thread is absurd.
So far three out of my friends asked if my 2002 996 was a brand new Porsche. To the outside public, there is absolutely no difference between 993, 996, or 991. Less than 1% of the world's population owns a Porsche 911; other 99%+ look at 911 Porsches and either smile, point, or shake fists at them.
Total production number of 996 cars was 162,000 + ~15,000 or so 1998 and 2005 cars cars (Source). In 2011 there were total of 59,929,016 passenger cars produced (Source). This makes ALL of 996 Porsches produced a mere 0.3% a total number of cars produced in 2011 ALONE. 996 is a rare, great performing, and iconic car. General public sees it a super car and couldn't care less about which headlights you have. All 911s still sound and look the same to outsiders. Very few people in this world can afford a late model Porsche, most settle for the wall poster. Enjoy your cars gents (and ladies), don't argue about headlights or car values.
So far three out of my friends asked if my 2002 996 was a brand new Porsche. To the outside public, there is absolutely no difference between 993, 996, or 991. Less than 1% of the world's population owns a Porsche 911; other 99%+ look at 911 Porsches and either smile, point, or shake fists at them.
Total production number of 996 cars was 162,000 + ~15,000 or so 1998 and 2005 cars cars (Source). In 2011 there were total of 59,929,016 passenger cars produced (Source). This makes ALL of 996 Porsches produced a mere 0.3% a total number of cars produced in 2011 ALONE. 996 is a rare, great performing, and iconic car. General public sees it a super car and couldn't care less about which headlights you have. All 911s still sound and look the same to outsiders. Very few people in this world can afford a late model Porsche, most settle for the wall poster. Enjoy your cars gents (and ladies), don't argue about headlights or car values.
08-15-2013, 09:21 PM
#56
Turbo twist was around for 993.
08-15-2013, 09:39 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
...
Stand corrected...
A very similar looking twist style wheel came on some 993 Turbo's
...
Still, tons of 996 turbo-twists retrofitted onto 993's!
Stand corrected...
A very similar looking twist style wheel came on some 993 Turbo's
...
Still, tons of 996 turbo-twists retrofitted onto 993's!
Last edited by pfbz; 08-15-2013 at 10:08 PM.
08-15-2013, 09:52 PM
#59
Race Director
I'm pretty sure turbo-twists were first introduced on the 996 Turbo in 2000. Originally hollow-spoked for light weight, then built more conventionally but visually identical.
Never available on the 993, just a very popular owner upgrade with the air-cooled folks wanting to 'update' the look of their car!
Never available on the 993, just a very popular owner upgrade with the air-cooled folks wanting to 'update' the look of their car!
08-16-2013, 04:55 AM
#60
Three Wheelin'
KrazyK puts up the perfect example of how beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Right from day one the 993 turbo looked awkward to me. The rear fenders are too wide, and that heavy looking melted cheese looking tail is just the icing on the cake.
Boy I'm glad you like it dude, but it sure as shootin' isn't perfect styling. Way far from it....count me out.
The MkII 996 GT3 on the other hand. Now that's a looker.
Hey - Maybe the air cooled fanboys should ..you know...shuffle off to their own forum?
Right from day one the 993 turbo looked awkward to me. The rear fenders are too wide, and that heavy looking melted cheese looking tail is just the icing on the cake.
Boy I'm glad you like it dude, but it sure as shootin' isn't perfect styling. Way far from it....count me out.
The MkII 996 GT3 on the other hand. Now that's a looker.
Hey - Maybe the air cooled fanboys should ..you know...shuffle off to their own forum?