996 - a step child?
08-16-2013, 06:36 PM
#76
Drifting
08-16-2013, 06:36 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
Speculative value in semi-collectible and collectible cars is all over the place... Cars go way up, cars go way down. 993's are hardly 'exploding' in value... and 996's are hardly dropping like a rock.
I'm seeing very similar prices for quality examples of both 993's and 996's that I saw last December, maybe +/- 10%. Does that mean that some 993's are transacting for silly expensive money and some folks (Imo000 :-) scoring 996's for silly cheap? No. But neither of those categories are likely to have a car I'd be interested in or deals that stick around long enough to take advantage of.
In terms of price bumps in the last six months, it's really the 911SC's that have taken a huge jump... $11K used to get you a very decent driver and $16K a very well sorted SC last summer. Now crappy cars are getting over $15K and a well sorted SC is over $23K, even with high miles. I'll bet you 993's haven't taken a 50% price bump in the last 12 months...
But again, KK, *why* do you keep your car? It seems like it does nothing but cause you misery... Sell it and buy whatever condition 993 the proceeds will get you, then you can stop your endless bitching about how fast the 996 depreciates, what a ****ty motor it has, how they are all going to be worth the price of a starbucks coffee in another six months, etc.
I'm seeing very similar prices for quality examples of both 993's and 996's that I saw last December, maybe +/- 10%. Does that mean that some 993's are transacting for silly expensive money and some folks (Imo000 :-) scoring 996's for silly cheap? No. But neither of those categories are likely to have a car I'd be interested in or deals that stick around long enough to take advantage of.
In terms of price bumps in the last six months, it's really the 911SC's that have taken a huge jump... $11K used to get you a very decent driver and $16K a very well sorted SC last summer. Now crappy cars are getting over $15K and a well sorted SC is over $23K, even with high miles. I'll bet you 993's haven't taken a 50% price bump in the last 12 months...
But again, KK, *why* do you keep your car? It seems like it does nothing but cause you misery... Sell it and buy whatever condition 993 the proceeds will get you, then you can stop your endless bitching about how fast the 996 depreciates, what a ****ty motor it has, how they are all going to be worth the price of a starbucks coffee in another six months, etc.
08-16-2013, 06:42 PM
#78
Race Director
^ Agreed. The only thing I've come up with is that KK derives some kind of odd pleasure from owning something that causes him anxiety. Why else would you insist on keeping a car that causes you so much stress?
If prices are falling as fast as Krazy predicts, why wouldn't he be driving the hell out of his car? In another six months, he'll be able to pick up a parts car for $500.
If prices are falling as fast as Krazy predicts, why wouldn't he be driving the hell out of his car? In another six months, he'll be able to pick up a parts car for $500.
08-16-2013, 07:14 PM
#79
The 996 is a great car and I do enjoy mine, but, I would never sugar coat the issues for those that are asking questions and dont understand the problems with the 996. For most of us its not an issue. We know what the problems are and know how to correct them. Its the poor souls that think "its a Porsche" so it must be trouble free considering the MSRP.
If I hadnt done all my own repairs, I would have burnt through a lot of $$$, just in labor, within a short time.
I just disagree with how some seem to try and gloss over the problems while only stating the great things, such as handling, etc. Lets just be open about all the 996 has to offer. The bad included. They are great cars but my comment to the potential buyer is:
You better know the 996 inside and out or your going to be in for some huge disappointments.
If I hadnt done all my own repairs, I would have burnt through a lot of $$$, just in labor, within a short time.
I just disagree with how some seem to try and gloss over the problems while only stating the great things, such as handling, etc. Lets just be open about all the 996 has to offer. The bad included. They are great cars but my comment to the potential buyer is:
You better know the 996 inside and out or your going to be in for some huge disappointments.
08-16-2013, 07:29 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
KK hyperbole examples in the past few days alone:
"The 993 value continues to climb while ours plummets faster than a 90's tech stock."
"I know Im not the only one here that worries as they leave the garage. OK, is a chain going to snap, cylinder going to self destruct or score, IMSB, and on , and on. Hence its safer to just not use it except for a local run around town (cheaper tow bill)."
"why the heck should he be enjoying a 996? Be sure to explain the 100 modes of failure, the entire IMSB saga, intermix issues, bad AOS, faulty oil gauge, leaky RMS, D-chunking, out of round crank bore, cylinder wall scoring, water pump impeller destruction, overheating hot spots, cracked heads, porous blocks, overpriced parts, extreme repair costs, etc. Dont forget to include the free falling sell prices "
"Dont expect much power out of the NA M96. Dont bother modding it, because it will surely fail"
Maybe you should put this part of your post as your signature so we don't forget that you do actually like your car..."I know Im not the only one here that worries as they leave the garage. OK, is a chain going to snap, cylinder going to self destruct or score, IMSB, and on , and on. Hence its safer to just not use it except for a local run around town (cheaper tow bill)."
"why the heck should he be enjoying a 996? Be sure to explain the 100 modes of failure, the entire IMSB saga, intermix issues, bad AOS, faulty oil gauge, leaky RMS, D-chunking, out of round crank bore, cylinder wall scoring, water pump impeller destruction, overheating hot spots, cracked heads, porous blocks, overpriced parts, extreme repair costs, etc. Dont forget to include the free falling sell prices "
"Dont expect much power out of the NA M96. Dont bother modding it, because it will surely fail"
"The 996 is a great car and I do enjoy mine, ... We know what the problems are and know how to correct them. ... stating the great things, such as handling, etc."
But for some common ground, I actually do completely agree with you on this point:"You better know the 996 inside and out or your going to be in for some ... disappointments."
08-16-2013, 07:34 PM
#81
Burning Brakes
Came to the 996 forum contemplating starting or finding a thread on why the 996 exists, and I find this one right on top!
So I was at RAC Performance having an alignment done on the 964 today, and some 996 C2 pulled in, and "why?" was the first thought that came to mind. The car should have never existed. Should have been skipped, and Porsche should have just gone straight to the 997. My thinking is mostly about the cosmetics, bc I just don't care enough to look deeper into the car.
My thoughts from this thread:
The GT3, GT2, Turbo, and C4 cars are alllllmost good looking enough to make it happen for me, allllmost enough to get over the blasphemous fried eggs, but I can never get over the interior. The design has just always been horribly ugly to me.
A common argument here is "people stop me all the time and think my car is awesome." This goes to show what's important to 996 owners: being admired for driving a porsche. No problem that its the one that never should have been made, and that it looks like a jelly bean, it says porsche on the hood! People think I'm driving an expensive car! I guess it just shows who they're trying to impress: soccer moms and their kids at the gas station, not people who actually know cars.
And so I don't focus my rant 100% on the 996, I was also developing my thoughts on the 991, and, while I like the car, the lines, the interior, it's not a 911. It's a car that should have been made, but it should have been something new, bc its just not a 911.
/rant
Now tell me how bad my 964 is
So I was at RAC Performance having an alignment done on the 964 today, and some 996 C2 pulled in, and "why?" was the first thought that came to mind. The car should have never existed. Should have been skipped, and Porsche should have just gone straight to the 997. My thinking is mostly about the cosmetics, bc I just don't care enough to look deeper into the car.
My thoughts from this thread:
The GT3, GT2, Turbo, and C4 cars are alllllmost good looking enough to make it happen for me, allllmost enough to get over the blasphemous fried eggs, but I can never get over the interior. The design has just always been horribly ugly to me.
A common argument here is "people stop me all the time and think my car is awesome." This goes to show what's important to 996 owners: being admired for driving a porsche. No problem that its the one that never should have been made, and that it looks like a jelly bean, it says porsche on the hood! People think I'm driving an expensive car! I guess it just shows who they're trying to impress: soccer moms and their kids at the gas station, not people who actually know cars.
And so I don't focus my rant 100% on the 996, I was also developing my thoughts on the 991, and, while I like the car, the lines, the interior, it's not a 911. It's a car that should have been made, but it should have been something new, bc its just not a 911.
/rant
Now tell me how bad my 964 is
08-16-2013, 07:38 PM
#82
Three Wheelin'
KrazyK, I see your point about giving both the good and the bad about the car. But, every performance car on the market has its own unique issues.
By your logic, very few performance cars should be worth anything at all due to their problems. And virtually every performance car from the 996 era should be worth less than $5,000.00. Here are the examples
:
E46 M3: total junk with VANOS blowing up, SMG blowing up every 100 miles, engines exploding every 1,000 miles and being replaced by BMW under warranty. Recommended action: melt it for Lenin’s statue replica, sell the statue to Cuba and buy a 993.
E60 M5: total junk with VANOS hideously expensive to fix, SMG transmission pump failing constantly, numerous electrical issues, iDrive not working. Recommended action: sell one immediately and buy a 993.
E39 M5: total junk with vanos failures, engine sludge problems, pixels failing on the gauges, electrical failures, tiny clutch constantly blowing up. Recommended action: donate one to local modern art museum and use the tax refund to buy a 993.
W211 E55k: total junk with air suspension failing every 100 yards, supercharger failing, supercharger chirping, brakes constantly squeaking, engine heat soak, intercooler pumps failing. Recommended action: drive one off the Grand Canyon’s edge, file an insurance claim and buy a 993.
MK1 CTS-V: total junk with rear ends exploding on every launch, engines breaking valve springs every fill up, and transmission synchros failing daily. Recommended action: transform the CTS into a potting plant holder and raise cannabis in it, use the proceeds to buy a 993.
Every performance car has its unique issues. On almost every car forum the uninitiated will get the impression that every car on that forum cannot make it 10 miles without some sort of catastrophic failure.
There is a big difference between alerting people to the "problem areas" of the vehicle and constantly ragging on the car you drive, its value, and its appeal.
By your logic, very few performance cars should be worth anything at all due to their problems. And virtually every performance car from the 996 era should be worth less than $5,000.00. Here are the examples
:E46 M3: total junk with VANOS blowing up, SMG blowing up every 100 miles, engines exploding every 1,000 miles and being replaced by BMW under warranty. Recommended action: melt it for Lenin’s statue replica, sell the statue to Cuba and buy a 993.
E60 M5: total junk with VANOS hideously expensive to fix, SMG transmission pump failing constantly, numerous electrical issues, iDrive not working. Recommended action: sell one immediately and buy a 993.
E39 M5: total junk with vanos failures, engine sludge problems, pixels failing on the gauges, electrical failures, tiny clutch constantly blowing up. Recommended action: donate one to local modern art museum and use the tax refund to buy a 993.
W211 E55k: total junk with air suspension failing every 100 yards, supercharger failing, supercharger chirping, brakes constantly squeaking, engine heat soak, intercooler pumps failing. Recommended action: drive one off the Grand Canyon’s edge, file an insurance claim and buy a 993.
MK1 CTS-V: total junk with rear ends exploding on every launch, engines breaking valve springs every fill up, and transmission synchros failing daily. Recommended action: transform the CTS into a potting plant holder and raise cannabis in it, use the proceeds to buy a 993.
Every performance car has its unique issues. On almost every car forum the uninitiated will get the impression that every car on that forum cannot make it 10 miles without some sort of catastrophic failure.
There is a big difference between alerting people to the "problem areas" of the vehicle and constantly ragging on the car you drive, its value, and its appeal.
08-16-2013, 07:53 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
*Exactly* what "true" 911 owners thought about your 964 when it was introduced...
Went something like this:
- Coil springs? Heresy! 911's use torsion bars!
- Power Steering?? Garbage! 911's are all about steering feel!!
- ABS??? I know how to drive and don't want some computer interfering!!!
- And those bumpers are so damn ugly, the car feels so heavy
- Porsche never should have made this car!
As far as the 911 aficionados were concerned at the time, the 964 was an abomination.
When I look at pictures of my old 911SC, I think "That was a gorgeous car... I really miss looking at it". But when driving or servicing my 996, I never wish I was driving or servicing the SC instead...
08-16-2013, 07:54 PM
#84
Race Director
08-16-2013, 08:12 PM
#85
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Cisco stock circa 1997 8 bucks
Cisco stock today after a bs drop 24 bucks
I am pretty sure it's tech ? Or did you buy unicorns and bunny farts ?
996 more fun than sky diving, reigning horses and my ex wife combined
I love my car
Cisco stock today after a bs drop 24 bucks
I am pretty sure it's tech ? Or did you buy unicorns and bunny farts ?
996 more fun than sky diving, reigning horses and my ex wife combined
I love my car
08-16-2013, 08:47 PM
#87
Race Director
08-16-2013, 09:21 PM
#89
Rat Balls
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Nah. I like your 964. But after that rant, pretty sure I don't like you.
Am I to believe that you have just now realized Porsche made a 996? And you just now decided to go fishing for info on why it was made?
Really? You Texas guys don't get it.
Troll.
Am I to believe that you have just now realized Porsche made a 996? And you just now decided to go fishing for info on why it was made?
Really? You Texas guys don't get it.
Troll.
