heligear

The Guardian is a good idea taken from the Aviation Industry and applied to Cars, all Helicopters use a similar system for their Engines, Transmissions and Gearboxes, a much more critical application than our engines, it is very effective and doesn't take much of a sliver or even a bit of fuzz to close the circuit and set the light off. It works well in its original application and I'm sure it will work for this one. Waiting until you can hear the bearing start to fail is too late.

alpine003

This is very flawed as the vibration signatures would be very complex and indiscernible to the human ear consisting of several complex harmonics and rhythmic vibrations that also need time analysis.

This is not like what tuners do by listening for knock with a microphone/headphone over the factory sensor when tuning for example.

alpine003

We know what Flat 6's guardian is about and that is not what is being talked about here.

Ahsai

You must have heard of the noise from a failing bearing before, right?

alpine003

That's my point, you cannot hear a failing IMS bearing just by listening to it which will probably be too late and also can be easily misdiagnosed. You need measuring equipment that can detect a more complex and objective signature that can do it much sooner before the failure. I guess I'm terrible at explaining things hence the reason why I'm not a teacher.

Maybe a pic can replace a thousand words as they say:

Ahsai

I agree it's very difficult to come up with an algorithm to detect a failing IMSB automatically with accuracy. My point was why when other bearings fail, we can tell by listening to it but IMSB we cannot? What's so special about this bearing that it does not produce any noise that our ears could tell that something is not right?

I agree from the drivers seat we won't be able to hear any noise from this bearing even if it's making bad noise but if you put a stethoscope right below it, you still think a bearing with all the galled ***** won't sound differently?

alpine003

I don't know if you can or not with all the other noise around it. I'm not sure how much of it would be masked. I guess my point is to try to detect it before a human ear can either hear it and/or have galled ***** by using a more complex method like an analyzer that can reference certain signatures within a database. Also everyone's ears are different and trying to describe a sound can be subjective in nature when dealing with several nuances, not to mention the differences in the testing equipment variances.

If there were enough measurements of these signatures for various stages and modes of failure with consistent data built up, one could take an existing signature from a transducer and compare it against the db.

Ideally it would be nice if we could know whether an IMS was on its way out or just worn/deteriorating chain guides, chain tensioner, etc based on these signatures.

Ahsai

Yes, completely agree if we can ID the sound signature of the failing bearing by spectrum analysis and whatnot, that's ideal. I was thinking about our "low tech" human ears which we always rely on when diagnosing other regular bearing noises.

EIB

I did very little vibration analysis. There are so many sources of vibrations in an engine, (bearings, gears, chains, valves, etc), it would be very difficult to determine the correct frequency change due to impending failure. The vibration pickup would have to be mounted on the bearing to have any chance of working.
Constantly changing speeds is another issue. LN Engineering did some studies.

Best prevention is to change oil frequently, 3-5K miles, cut open the oil filter every oil change and look for metal particles, use as high a viscosity oil that your climate allows. I'm in NH and don't drive it in the winter. Currently use Mobil 1, 15/50. Will be changing to TOTAL.
Ed

mcbit

That's not prevention, that's a witch hunt!

EIB

Did some research. There are approximately 350 roller bearing IMS in engines. No reported failures. A large shop rebuilds 150 M96/97 and 996 engines a year for various reasons. Hans Mezger, "Porsche and Me" says that the 996 engine had lubrication problems.

See videos at http//vimeo.com/89968767.

Ed B

ltusler

Who builds 150 engine a year?

EIB

Vertex
Ed B

MB 911

Videos here..

https://vimeo.com/tag:European+Parts+Solution

Schnell Gelb

UGh ! we have been through this in great detail many times.Do a search if you are really interested.
The short version is that the roller bearing alternative has inherent defects for this application- raised by experts ,not amateurs like me.
The promoters/marketers failed to offer any data to refute the very reasonable objections made about their roller bearing for the IMSB.
It is therefore a rather perverse choice since there are already effective solutions without the inherent problems.
If DOF 'saves' the roller bearing solution, why not use DOF with a deep groove ball bearing and answer all the objections?
But we'll be interested to hear the results and wish you well.