tlisotta

Jake at Flat 6 - looking to get a used 996 - 1999 to 2004. I am assuming the C4 has the same issues as C2? Secondly, are there shops in Dallas, Tx that I can buy your parts from and they know how to install it? or do you only do your parts in Georgia?

phlporsche

No issues with my 02. Just replaced as preventative maintenance with AOS and RMS at 39k with LN Pro.

Rmorgan1

Yes, bearing was starting to wear so replaced it with LN ceramic in May 2014. Grease seal had failed and all grease had washed out of the bearing. 2003 C2 Cab with 40K miles.

ZX9RCAM

Probably failed due to lack of driving.



just my .02

vargas

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased an '02 C4S that was once a CPO. This 996 has 38k miles and in the service history, it shows a RMS replacement back at about 11k miles (8 years back) done by Porsche. Service shows the tranny was removed to proceed with this repair. I called the dealer to inquire if they serviced the IMS but they could not verify. How can I look further into this? I have called Porsche and they are unable to help. I've driven this 996 @ relatively high RPM's prior to inspection and after. Runs solid...no leak.

Is there a way to determine if this 996's IMS was addressed by Porsche back when the RMS was replaced? Why else would Porsche remove the tranny to service the RMS?

Thank you in advances to all responses!

aviography

The transmission needs to be separated from the engine to gain access to the RMS seal, no other way around it.

If the record doesn't show any IMSB work/replacement, then it likely wasn't done.

mklein9

By far the most likely outcome. The '05 Boxster we got last year had the RMS replaced by a PO (3 POs back, actually) due to leakage. The work order showed an additional 3 hours of labor marked with IMS something or another (don't have it handy right now) but no IMSB in the parts list. '05 was a transition year between the M96 and M97 IMS bearings, the latter being irreplaceable without taking the engine apart but a sturdier bearing. I called the shop that did the work and they said the only way that would happen is if the owner asked for an IMSB replacement "if it was the old style", and after taking the flange off it was found to be an M97 style.

The point being, there is always a trace of IMSB replacement in labor or parts on the work order. If it's not there explicitly, the work was very unlikely to have been done. With an '02 you have the M96 single row bearing which at least can be replaced, which I would strongly urge you to do especially if the car was not regularly driven and has low mileage (and has no metal traces of any sort in the oil).

vargas

I had the car go through my longtime indy. He said everything checked out fine when servicing the oil and other components. However, I was thinking along your suggested advice as well. When you say to replace the bearing, am I looking at the LN kit or is there better options available for the '02 models?

mklein9

You'll get endless opinions but mine is LNE's IMSB kit. Together with Flat6, these are the folks who have studied the issues the deepest of anyone outside of Porsche. But just as important is that the mechanic who does the work follows the specs and procedures on LNE's web site, including making sure your engine qualifies for the work in the first place. As you can see from my sig, mine didn't, the shop did the work anyway, and 12k miles later the LNE bearing was toast.

JD ARTHUR

I recently took a 2000 in trade on another car. The previous owner bought the car new and it only has 18000 miles on it. The previous owner has several exotic cars so the Porsche was not driven very often. He did have the oil changed every year which equates to an oil change about every 1300 miles. I love the way the car looks and drives so I decided to keep it for myself. I came on this board and read about the IMS problems and have decided to just ship the car to Jake and have him do whatever it takes to keep it from becoming a problem. Hopefully it has yet to spew metal thru out the engine. The RMS and the IMS have never been touched. Its seems to me as a newbe to the Porsche world that this particular model is a crapshoot. Many have no problems but many do. The cars aren't worth much but they are beautiful and if they don'r blow up they are fun to drive and a great value at todays prices. To me they look like not a good car to buy as an investment but a great car to own and drive if the IMS issue doesn't bite you in the ***.

Cuda911

Only two freekin' posts here, and Arthur has encapsulated the true essence of the 996 in only two sentences. I am impressed!!!!!!!

vargas

I received a formal response from one of the administrators in the class action lawsuit on the IMSB:

"Based on the information provided to us by Porsche in discovery, the failure rate of vehicles with our version of the IMS, from 2001 to 2005, was in the range of 4 to 10%. Porsche began using that particular version of the IMS that was subject to the higher failure rate as part of its production runs exclusively as of May 4, 2001. This same IMS model was used through February 21, 2005. The failure rate of the IMS in Porsche vehicles pre-dating May 2001 and post-dating February 2005 was documented at less than 1%. The higher failure rate between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 is the reason why some vehicles are included and others are not."

So there you have it...

Flat6 Innovations

So, how do we run across 2000 model cars with original owners and no engine replacements that have single row bearings?

Then, why do we run across 2005 models as late as October reduction dates that have M96 diameter single row bearings in their original engines?

How do we run across cars that have VIN that are within the range of the class action suit that have the later, M97 IMSB that are not supposed to be covered by the class action suit? Again, original owners, no engine replacements.

Believe nothing of what you hear and only 1/2 of what you see.

mklein9

Jake, I think the key word in the paragraph is "exclusively", right? There was likely a mix of bearings used sometime between (late?) 2000 and May 4, 2001, but after that the single-row bearings were used exclusively. Similarly for the transition to the M97 bearing. My wife's '05 987's IMSB was inspected (by a PO) and confirmed to have the M97 bearing with a build date of April 2005.

Flat6 Innovations

The answer is clear.. They kept horrible records. After all there were no IMS issues, right? So why keep track or care about which engines had what.

You can guarantee that the accounting records per engine would prove which engine had what.

Also, the 8% single row failure report was as of 2012, that number didn't stop..... We've entered 21 engine failures in our failure log since October 1 of this year... No one knows how many of those were the IMSB. We won't see most of the cars, but I do have the reports and symptoms of the failure.