Hello OR Goodbye?
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Mooresville, IN (Life Long Cheesehead)
I would prefer a sub-forum for this. A poll doesn't do squat. Do you notice how many of us regulars are not chiming in? Its because this is so tiring......just so tiring. I fought posting but the devil on my left shoulder won.
This thread will not end well......like most of these related threads.
This thread will not end well......like most of these related threads.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 610
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From: Tampa, Fl
I guess I'm just an idiot, but I'm lacking the point...what is this going to accomplish? I agree with LeftLane on this one, so you get a survey, and it has 1,000 participants, and it shows the result is somewhere between 5-10%....now what? PCNA will tell you too bad so sad, and we'll be right where we are today.
DS
DS
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OK, so here is an idea, we can do 2 sticky threads, one is an IMS survey (data only) and the 2nd an IMS discussion thread.
This would keep the forum a bit cleaner, thoughts?
This would keep the forum a bit cleaner, thoughts?
Rat Balls
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From: Scottsdale AZ, USA
Rocky Mountain High
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From: Kolorado
I think that's a good idea Marc.
I don't thnk we should discourage discussion on any Porsche-related topic, even those that are controversial. I have no issue at all with the original poster's desire to discuss the IMSB issue. He's new to the brand, new to the board and undertaking a major project. I actually find it interesting.
My issues with the original poster are his belligerent attitude, his broad generalizations about our community and his unwillingness to make any effort to learn about what this community offers. Message boards like this exist because of the people who contribute to them. There is social etiquette when dealing with a group of people, even if those people are on an Internet forum. I'm not in favor of closing threads or trying to censor a contributor for wanting to discuss a Porsche-related issue. However, I am in favor of censoring a contributor who doesn't treat other members with respect or who argues in a disrespectful way with people who disagree with his or her position.
I don't thnk we should discourage discussion on any Porsche-related topic, even those that are controversial. I have no issue at all with the original poster's desire to discuss the IMSB issue. He's new to the brand, new to the board and undertaking a major project. I actually find it interesting.
My issues with the original poster are his belligerent attitude, his broad generalizations about our community and his unwillingness to make any effort to learn about what this community offers. Message boards like this exist because of the people who contribute to them. There is social etiquette when dealing with a group of people, even if those people are on an Internet forum. I'm not in favor of closing threads or trying to censor a contributor for wanting to discuss a Porsche-related issue. However, I am in favor of censoring a contributor who doesn't treat other members with respect or who argues in a disrespectful way with people who disagree with his or her position.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
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I think what's tiring for me about the topic is that there is simply no new information, and hasn't been for years (setting aside the odd new product). What is known about the problem would consume about ten lines in one of these posts. And. That's. It.
Everything else - all of it - is just a futile rehash of the same outrage. There's simply nothing new to say. And for me, having a sticky thread for all this stuff doesn't solve the problem. It only institutionalizes it. Anyone wandering into this forum will look at that sticky and conclude that it's a dominant theme in 996 ownership... which is exactly the problem.
My .02.
Everything else - all of it - is just a futile rehash of the same outrage. There's simply nothing new to say. And for me, having a sticky thread for all this stuff doesn't solve the problem. It only institutionalizes it. Anyone wandering into this forum will look at that sticky and conclude that it's a dominant theme in 996 ownership... which is exactly the problem.
My .02.
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 313
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From: Boone NC
hey Fierofly! i don't think ANYBODY here gives a rat's obama if you post or not...just the same for me.....buy an engine from jake raby and put it in or go to G&W motorwerks and they can find you one (and make it a fire breather if you want)....so - either; Welcome and learn - or go pound sand
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 242
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From: Silicon Valley
The 996 is like a beaten dog... That's the real issue. At this point it's super old news too. I have multiple friends with 996s and 986s who have no CLUE about any of this, don't read forums, don't read mags, don't care. They're a lot healthier and happier and their cars are fine (incl one friend with 120k on his Boxster driven year round since new). They sometimes ask "should I try to check out the forums?" And I say "NOOOoOoOOo" it's like reading about plane crashes if you're a frequent flier.
And so the topics have been so beaten to death that even traditionally anti 996 mags like Evo and Total 911 have posted articles saying "hey now... Lets not keep beating this dog to the point where it's blown massively out of proportion"
So what is a "sticky" or "survey" going to do? Either buy a 996 or don't. If you do you're basically STEALING a 911 so yeah, you're rolling the dice. Too bad. Don't like it? Well then pay 50-150% more for an older 993 or 200-300% more for a 997.2.
Putting a Chevy engine in a 911 and saying that is the "fix" for a "stupid Porsche design flaw" um... Yah no. That's going to create the "ultimate 911"??? Ok whatever.
Again... Either buy a 996 and roll the dice (such as it is... I don't think the gamble is even REMOTELY what the BS makes it out to be, but ok), or spend ACTUAL Porsche money on a newer or older car.
Either way the horse is thoroughly beaten to death.
And so the topics have been so beaten to death that even traditionally anti 996 mags like Evo and Total 911 have posted articles saying "hey now... Lets not keep beating this dog to the point where it's blown massively out of proportion"
So what is a "sticky" or "survey" going to do? Either buy a 996 or don't. If you do you're basically STEALING a 911 so yeah, you're rolling the dice. Too bad. Don't like it? Well then pay 50-150% more for an older 993 or 200-300% more for a 997.2.
Putting a Chevy engine in a 911 and saying that is the "fix" for a "stupid Porsche design flaw" um... Yah no. That's going to create the "ultimate 911"??? Ok whatever.
Again... Either buy a 996 and roll the dice (such as it is... I don't think the gamble is even REMOTELY what the BS makes it out to be, but ok), or spend ACTUAL Porsche money on a newer or older car.
Either way the horse is thoroughly beaten to death.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 279
Likes: 9
From: SF Bay Area, CA
I think what's tiring for me about the topic is that there is simply no new information, and hasn't been for years (setting aside the odd new product). What is known about the problem would consume about ten lines in one of these posts. And. That's. It.
Everything else - all of it - is just a futile rehash of the same outrage. There's simply nothing new to say. And for me, having a sticky thread for all this stuff doesn't solve the problem. It only institutionalizes it. Anyone wandering into this forum will look at that sticky and conclude that it's a dominant theme in 996 ownership... which is exactly the problem.
My .02.
Everything else - all of it - is just a futile rehash of the same outrage. There's simply nothing new to say. And for me, having a sticky thread for all this stuff doesn't solve the problem. It only institutionalizes it. Anyone wandering into this forum will look at that sticky and conclude that it's a dominant theme in 996 ownership... which is exactly the problem.
My .02.
Consider this, this is a public forum, open to anyone with a computer. It's not a private club where you can screen potential members to ensure they align with your opinions. And as the price of the 996's marches lower and lower, the more often you will be seeing guys the OP. That I can guarantee . There will be no end to it as long as there are 996's going to new owners.
The very best you can hope for is to contain it in an agreed upon way. Simply saying I am tired of it, lets not discuss it anymore won't work, and is kicking the can down the road.
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 279
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
The IMSB sticky on the 997 board is close to 2 years old now and has a little over 500 votes. And I see that the Boxster board has a poll thread too that's only 2 weeks old.
But, for whatever reason, there does not seem to be nearly the resistance on those forums as here.
But, for whatever reason, there does not seem to be nearly the resistance on those forums as here.