Wow - 996 3.6L replacement cost from Porsche!
09-18-2012, 03:14 PM
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
I want to reiterate that I personally believe the incidence of failure of these engines as a percentage of sales is low. Bad news travels fast, while years and years of reliable performance isn't something people start new posts about.
I looked around at options to replace this car instead of spending more money on it and included in that search things like '02 and up Turbos, '06 and up 997's, any year GT3's, M3's, etc and came to the conclusion that my '02 C2 will still be an amazing performance car for the money even after I factor costs to replace the engine. As a kid, one of my cars was a '67 Chevelle SS with a big block 396. I blew it up twice, caught it on fire once, and every time it came back stronger and faster post rebuild. I'm looking at this project with the same eager anticipation.
And there are plenty of under-marketed options out there for replacement engines. There are builders in SoCal that have good pedigrees and will put together a beefed up motor in the $10K to $12K range. A fellow forum member pinged me about an $8,500 M96 motor with under 5K miles, etc.
I started this thread not to bash engine failures, but to report the current options and up front cost of replacing a motor with a factory rebuild. Many of the historical reports show costs from Porsche in the $10K to $15K range with core charges in the $3K to $5K range. I also ran into the occasional report of X51 motors at blowout prices (blowout might be a bad descriptor in a blown motor thread). Those conditions don't exist today, although it appears these programs with Porsche are somewhat fluid so who knows what will happen down the road.
I'm still feeling very positive about my overall experience with this car and am looking forward to getting it back on the road.
I looked around at options to replace this car instead of spending more money on it and included in that search things like '02 and up Turbos, '06 and up 997's, any year GT3's, M3's, etc and came to the conclusion that my '02 C2 will still be an amazing performance car for the money even after I factor costs to replace the engine. As a kid, one of my cars was a '67 Chevelle SS with a big block 396. I blew it up twice, caught it on fire once, and every time it came back stronger and faster post rebuild. I'm looking at this project with the same eager anticipation.
And there are plenty of under-marketed options out there for replacement engines. There are builders in SoCal that have good pedigrees and will put together a beefed up motor in the $10K to $12K range. A fellow forum member pinged me about an $8,500 M96 motor with under 5K miles, etc.
I started this thread not to bash engine failures, but to report the current options and up front cost of replacing a motor with a factory rebuild. Many of the historical reports show costs from Porsche in the $10K to $15K range with core charges in the $3K to $5K range. I also ran into the occasional report of X51 motors at blowout prices (blowout might be a bad descriptor in a blown motor thread). Those conditions don't exist today, although it appears these programs with Porsche are somewhat fluid so who knows what will happen down the road.
I'm still feeling very positive about my overall experience with this car and am looking forward to getting it back on the road.
09-18-2012, 03:14 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
I'm willing to bet there are a lot of good Porsche engine builders out there that might not have the exposure or internet savy to market themselves like some.
I mean c'mon, a Porsche engine isn't a magical thing that only a few can work on. Sure the parts might cost a bit more(especially OEM if you even have a choice depending on part) and you might need some special tools but I'm willing to bet that there are a good portion of independents out there that have built quite a few Porsche engines that can do just as good of a job. It's just a matter of finding them and finding one that is fair and not willing to impose the famous Porsche tax on you.
Of course, you can play it safe and go by internet reputation and pay the premium for a piece of mind. That would be an individual decision that varies by person.
My $.02
I mean c'mon, a Porsche engine isn't a magical thing that only a few can work on. Sure the parts might cost a bit more(especially OEM if you even have a choice depending on part) and you might need some special tools but I'm willing to bet that there are a good portion of independents out there that have built quite a few Porsche engines that can do just as good of a job. It's just a matter of finding them and finding one that is fair and not willing to impose the famous Porsche tax on you.
Of course, you can play it safe and go by internet reputation and pay the premium for a piece of mind. That would be an individual decision that varies by person.
My $.02
+1 OP, You can get a rebuild with upgraded cylinders and pistons done for $10-13,000 depending on what parts you choose to replace or upgrade along the way. Do your homework and negotiate hourly rates before deciding on a shop.
09-18-2012, 04:03 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
I don't think that's in VW's business plan at all...
09-18-2012, 04:44 PM
#35
Lol, I know, it was just simply naive wishful thinking at best.
I was really hoping VW as a parent company would absorb some of the costs and be willing to minimize their profits in that dept to preserve the Porsche brand and reputation at the highest order since now they can pull from other areas to satisfy their earnings report for the shareholders....yeah right. But who am I kidding?
I'll get off my crack pipe now...
Edit: On a sidenote, I've been happy with BMW's support for their enthusiasts. How many other car manufacturers can you still buy 40 year old car parts still directly from the dealer.
I was really hoping VW as a parent company would absorb some of the costs and be willing to minimize their profits in that dept to preserve the Porsche brand and reputation at the highest order since now they can pull from other areas to satisfy their earnings report for the shareholders....yeah right. But who am I kidding?
I'll get off my crack pipe now...
Edit: On a sidenote, I've been happy with BMW's support for their enthusiasts. How many other car manufacturers can you still buy 40 year old car parts still directly from the dealer.
09-18-2012, 05:26 PM
#36
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I think it's the other way around. Porsche owns the controlling interest in VW. The story is outlined in CNBC's documentary "Fastbucks Porsche" It tells how Porsche made milliions in the financial markets and bought up VW shares.
09-18-2012, 05:32 PM
#37
And by saying "controlling" I was trying to be nice(more like 100%).
09-18-2012, 07:37 PM
#38
I am going through this painful, very frustrating motor rebuild process right now. I won't get into any debates about cost, the "porsche tax," exposure of dollars and the very high cost for relatively modest performance--seriously $18K and more for a sub 350-375 hp motor!--or whether all those dollars are worth it. I will say that I concluded that either a factory reman or the marquee rebuild were too much money for the market value of a '99, not to mention the "what if" the motor goes caplooy again, and you're out the money. BTW, the marquee rebuild does not include a warranty if you put your car on the track . . .
So, firmly believing that a rebuild should not deprive the daughter of a college education, I contracted with one of those "SoCal" builders. As I said, very frustrating, very painful. And, no, it wasn't Motor Meister, though I begin to wonder . . . I really do not understand why more independents are not trumpeting good value rebuilds and then backing their business up with some basic competence and integrity. Why is that asking so much?
I'll leave it here: if you are considering a "So Cal" builder, please feel free to pm me for details that may help you avoid some expensive headaches.
So, firmly believing that a rebuild should not deprive the daughter of a college education, I contracted with one of those "SoCal" builders. As I said, very frustrating, very painful. And, no, it wasn't Motor Meister, though I begin to wonder . . . I really do not understand why more independents are not trumpeting good value rebuilds and then backing their business up with some basic competence and integrity. Why is that asking so much?
I'll leave it here: if you are considering a "So Cal" builder, please feel free to pm me for details that may help you avoid some expensive headaches.
09-18-2012, 08:47 PM
#39
A guy could always installl one of these!
Porsche 4.0 RSR Engine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zero Hours from our friends at PMNA. 4.0 RSR engine . RSR exhaust. RSR flywheel with Carbon Clutch and a bunch of other racing parts. The price is $90k. I could not get the pictures to load but I will post some pictures on the Orbitracing.com website in the Race Cars for Sale section.
Please call with any questions
Rodger@orbitracing.com
561 840 2109
__________________
www.orbitracing.com
Phone: 561-840-2109
Porsche 4.0 RSR Engine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zero Hours from our friends at PMNA. 4.0 RSR engine . RSR exhaust. RSR flywheel with Carbon Clutch and a bunch of other racing parts. The price is $90k. I could not get the pictures to load but I will post some pictures on the Orbitracing.com website in the Race Cars for Sale section.
Please call with any questions
Rodger@orbitracing.com
561 840 2109
__________________
www.orbitracing.com
Phone: 561-840-2109
09-19-2012, 02:15 AM
#40
Former Vendor
These prices and core charges are nothing new.. Been this way for over a year now, just wait till your core engine goes to Germany and get inspected and they tell you that they'll be keeping your core money! That happens frequently today, we field the calls.
Looks like its time to raise my prices, I simply cannot have the Porsche engine cost less than my hand built substitute.. No wonder we have cars at the shop from 17 states and 3 Canadian Provinces. Been working too cheap!
We saw this coming over a decade ago.. Back then the Porsche engine was 7-8k and our was 15k+ and we still sold more than we even wanted to build.
Looks like its time to raise my prices, I simply cannot have the Porsche engine cost less than my hand built substitute.. No wonder we have cars at the shop from 17 states and 3 Canadian Provinces. Been working too cheap!
We saw this coming over a decade ago.. Back then the Porsche engine was 7-8k and our was 15k+ and we still sold more than we even wanted to build.
09-19-2012, 02:23 AM
#41
Former Vendor
BTW- Charles from LN and I are currently finishing up the final 2,000 miles of a 7,000 mile excursion testing my next generation M96 engine. From Georgia to Edmonton AB Canada and back in 8 days and we didn't take te direct route. I am currently writing from the passenger seat from the middle of nowhere in Nebraska. Flawless performance all the way for the entire engine package. Hell, it even has the IMS Solution installed:-)
09-19-2012, 02:09 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
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Guys, this is not a new issue. I have owned many cars from the 70's 80's and 90's. An engine rebuild sometimes exceeded the value of the car, but was always a dubious expenditure.
I rebuilt a 3.0 liter for about $9,000, less than 6 months later I sold the car for 14,000.
Today if you crate or rebuild for 18,000, you could sell for 25K.
Looks like very similar math to me, just more decimal points.
I rebuilt a 3.0 liter for about $9,000, less than 6 months later I sold the car for 14,000.
Today if you crate or rebuild for 18,000, you could sell for 25K.
Looks like very similar math to me, just more decimal points.