Wow - 996 3.6L replacement cost from Porsche!
09-17-2012, 03:49 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Wow - 996 3.6L replacement cost from Porsche!
As some of you who followed my recent bad gas/misfire posts know (now relegated to the "wishful thinking" category) I'm in need of a replacement 3.6L engine for my '02 C2, or a rebuild on the existing engine. In starting to work through my options I called both Suncoast and Sunset Porsche today to find out the current "deal" on remanufactured engines.
I'm shocked and amazed at the response, which was identical between these two sources. They want $34,108 up front for a vanilla 3.6L rebuilt engine (more money than I paid for the car), and presumably with all of the inherent flaws of the original one. $16,168 is the net cost after a core credit of $17,940! It would appear that Porsche is_really_eager to have these blown engines returned given the $18K core charge.
I asked about the process for the core credit and how long it takes. It sounds like Porsche would have my $18K as hostage for at least a month including shipping time for the core return, and I assume shipping both ways is additional cost and my expense. I was also told they tear down the core and examine it as part of their determination about the core charge refund, which means that getting my $18K back isn't a sure thing.
Clearly I can strike this off my list of options because it's ludicrous, but I report it here just because I'm blown away by how customer-unfriendly Porsche is making this for all concerned. I get it that the amount of nuked M96 engines as a % of 996 sales is probably a lower figure than the internet flaming would imply (although I have had two dead ones so far in this car at 78K miles). But there is no shortage of bad publicity about these issues and it's an obvious sore spot in the Porsche community. It was in fact mentioned again in the YouTube Tanner Faust clip posted on this board earlier today. I don't expect Porsche to be giving away engines to replace the ones that are failing prematurely in the field, but they would go a long way toward healing some wounds by coming up with a reasonable replacement program. What they're doing now is just rubbing salt in the wound.
Somewhere, Jake Raby must be smiling, not at misfortune like mine, but at the prospect of a large and growing customer base.
I'm shocked and amazed at the response, which was identical between these two sources. They want $34,108 up front for a vanilla 3.6L rebuilt engine (more money than I paid for the car), and presumably with all of the inherent flaws of the original one. $16,168 is the net cost after a core credit of $17,940! It would appear that Porsche is_really_eager to have these blown engines returned given the $18K core charge.
I asked about the process for the core credit and how long it takes. It sounds like Porsche would have my $18K as hostage for at least a month including shipping time for the core return, and I assume shipping both ways is additional cost and my expense. I was also told they tear down the core and examine it as part of their determination about the core charge refund, which means that getting my $18K back isn't a sure thing.
Clearly I can strike this off my list of options because it's ludicrous, but I report it here just because I'm blown away by how customer-unfriendly Porsche is making this for all concerned. I get it that the amount of nuked M96 engines as a % of 996 sales is probably a lower figure than the internet flaming would imply (although I have had two dead ones so far in this car at 78K miles). But there is no shortage of bad publicity about these issues and it's an obvious sore spot in the Porsche community. It was in fact mentioned again in the YouTube Tanner Faust clip posted on this board earlier today. I don't expect Porsche to be giving away engines to replace the ones that are failing prematurely in the field, but they would go a long way toward healing some wounds by coming up with a reasonable replacement program. What they're doing now is just rubbing salt in the wound.
Somewhere, Jake Raby must be smiling, not at misfortune like mine, but at the prospect of a large and growing customer base.
09-17-2012, 04:50 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
They want to sell 997's as certified pre-owned and new 991's not keep us 2nd or 3rd hand 996 owners happy. Let's face it reason most of us own a 996 is becasue a 991 was out of reach and those new car buyersa re who is making Porsche the most oney. Not saying I agree 100% but I think that is just the way it is.
Good luck sorting it out.
Good luck sorting it out.
09-17-2012, 05:01 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Tiderace, have you or your mechanic pinpointed the engine problem/damages? If so, what happened to the engine? Are the cases in tact? I have some recent experience as I had to rebuild my motor last year. There are more options out there...
09-17-2012, 05:55 PM
#4
Drifting
I have one maybe two 996 engines that I am parting with, no core required.
EM to PO sent.
Mike
EM to PO sent.
Mike
09-17-2012, 06:34 PM
#5
these pricing will surely keep the 996 value right down...the drain.
I personally could not drive my car if it was not under nw extended power train warranty. too scary.
The engine cost is almost reasonable for porsche tax and all, but the core charge is insane considering they decide if you will get your money back or not. I mean what exactly is their incentive to give you your money back ? how would you argue they are wrong about their diagnostic. I assume you have to have blind trust in porsche... tough sell !
And talking about trying to sell new product, I don't think it helps to not backup your older products. that doesn't send the right message to future buyer I think. Why should they expect to be treated any better than us ?
I personally could not drive my car if it was not under nw extended power train warranty. too scary.
The engine cost is almost reasonable for porsche tax and all, but the core charge is insane considering they decide if you will get your money back or not. I mean what exactly is their incentive to give you your money back ? how would you argue they are wrong about their diagnostic. I assume you have to have blind trust in porsche... tough sell !
And talking about trying to sell new product, I don't think it helps to not backup your older products. that doesn't send the right message to future buyer I think. Why should they expect to be treated any better than us ?
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09-17-2012, 08:16 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
I was wondering if this was a self inflicted wound so I asked about what the DME had logged in terms of over rev's. There were several Type 1's, which I understand is essentially bumping into the rev limiter, and a few Type 2's which is supposedly slightly above redline but still in the no harm, no foul range. The Type 2's were recorded pretty far back in the engine hour run time history and are an unlikely contributing factor to a sudden engine failure. There were no Type 3, 4, 5 or 6 over rev's recorded.
09-17-2012, 08:29 PM
#10
Drifting
Broken ring landing is more likely from detonation than over rev I would think.
Maybe some bad fuel?
Could it possibly be from someplace else and entered through open valve?
I missed OPs original thread
M
Maybe some bad fuel?
Could it possibly be from someplace else and entered through open valve?
I missed OPs original thread
M
09-17-2012, 09:09 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Take it apart and send cases to LN Engineering for 3.8 rebore and nikasil plating. Find a competent shop to rebuild when the cases and shiny forged pistons come back. 
Wait time could be 4-8 weeks. You don't want to waste time.
Wait time could be 4-8 weeks. You don't want to waste time.
09-17-2012, 09:19 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Presumably the ecu would retard timing before anything that catastrophic like that would happen. Maybe injector blockage and extreme lean condition?
09-17-2012, 09:35 PM
#13
09-17-2012, 10:07 PM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
Interesting that you mention bad fuel and detonation as a possible cause since that was speculated in my original post. Fuel tank was nearly empty and I had just filled it 10 miles and 15 minutes of run time prior to the onset of misfire and then told calamity 30 seconds later.
09-17-2012, 10:13 PM
#15
Race Director
As some of you who followed my recent bad gas/misfire posts know (now relegated to the "wishful thinking" category) I'm in need of a replacement 3.6L engine for my '02 C2, or a rebuild on the existing engine. In starting to work through my options I called both Suncoast and Sunset Porsche today to find out the current "deal" on remanufactured engines.
I'm shocked and amazed at the response, which was identical between these two sources. They want $34,108 up front for a vanilla 3.6L rebuilt engine (more money than I paid for the car), and presumably with all of the inherent flaws of the original one. $16,168 is the net cost after a core credit of $17,940! It would appear that Porsche is_really_eager to have these blown engines returned given the $18K core charge.
I asked about the process for the core credit and how long it takes. It sounds like Porsche would have my $18K as hostage for at least a month including shipping time for the core return, and I assume shipping both ways is additional cost and my expense. I was also told they tear down the core and examine it as part of their determination about the core charge refund, which means that getting my $18K back isn't a sure thing.
Clearly I can strike this off my list of options because it's ludicrous, but I report it here just because I'm blown away by how customer-unfriendly Porsche is making this for all concerned. I get it that the amount of nuked M96 engines as a % of 996 sales is probably a lower figure than the internet flaming would imply (although I have had two dead ones so far in this car at 78K miles). But there is no shortage of bad publicity about these issues and it's an obvious sore spot in the Porsche community. It was in fact mentioned again in the YouTube Tanner Faust clip posted on this board earlier today. I don't expect Porsche to be giving away engines to replace the ones that are failing prematurely in the field, but they would go a long way toward healing some wounds by coming up with a reasonable replacement program. What they're doing now is just rubbing salt in the wound.
Somewhere, Jake Raby must be smiling, not at misfortune like mine, but at the prospect of a large and growing customer base.
I'm shocked and amazed at the response, which was identical between these two sources. They want $34,108 up front for a vanilla 3.6L rebuilt engine (more money than I paid for the car), and presumably with all of the inherent flaws of the original one. $16,168 is the net cost after a core credit of $17,940! It would appear that Porsche is_really_eager to have these blown engines returned given the $18K core charge.
I asked about the process for the core credit and how long it takes. It sounds like Porsche would have my $18K as hostage for at least a month including shipping time for the core return, and I assume shipping both ways is additional cost and my expense. I was also told they tear down the core and examine it as part of their determination about the core charge refund, which means that getting my $18K back isn't a sure thing.
Clearly I can strike this off my list of options because it's ludicrous, but I report it here just because I'm blown away by how customer-unfriendly Porsche is making this for all concerned. I get it that the amount of nuked M96 engines as a % of 996 sales is probably a lower figure than the internet flaming would imply (although I have had two dead ones so far in this car at 78K miles). But there is no shortage of bad publicity about these issues and it's an obvious sore spot in the Porsche community. It was in fact mentioned again in the YouTube Tanner Faust clip posted on this board earlier today. I don't expect Porsche to be giving away engines to replace the ones that are failing prematurely in the field, but they would go a long way toward healing some wounds by coming up with a reasonable replacement program. What they're doing now is just rubbing salt in the wound.
Somewhere, Jake Raby must be smiling, not at misfortune like mine, but at the prospect of a large and growing customer base.
The core charge thing I can understand the anxiety based on the amount of money involved -- it is a scary amount -- and from the uncertainty and cost involved.
But I think I can see Porsche's point of view at least in this case.
Given your car's engine was rebuilt it could be the rebuild is -- I hope I'm wrong -- a bad job and the engine is not only broken in a rather unusual manner: A chunk of metal from as yet an unknown location (but apparently not arising from a d-chunk failure) or part is visible via a borescope examination); but the engine may be unsuitable to serve as a core due to the quality of the rebuild.
Porsche is not responsible for warranting, in some fashion -- via a core charge credit in this case -- an engine rebuild by crediting an owner of such an engine a core credit if the engine was not rebuilt properly and its failure has rendered the engine unsuitable to serve as a suitable core from which a viable remanufactured engine can be produced.
Since Porsche is on the hook via a warranty (parts: 2 years, 24K miles) and labor: one year IIRC) when it supplies a remanufactured engine that is installed by one of its authorized dealers Porsche I'm sure wants to start out with as good as a core as possible. A rebuilt engine may not be that core.
Anyhow, I hope it all works out for you in the end as best it can. You are without a doubt facing an unpleasant situation.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Last edited by Macster; 09-17-2012 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Typos...