How to drive a Porsche?
03-17-2012, 11:26 PM
#77
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YAY!!!! 6 pages
03-18-2012, 12:48 AM
#78
Very funny stuff.
03-18-2012, 11:48 AM
#79
Engine braking on the street is probably ok as long as you don't overrev the engine. It's not really appropriate on the track at all. I would fail a check ride if it was done. Use the right tool for the job. The engine is for going, brakes for slowing. It's just common sense.
Sure you can slow the car exclusively with the engine, but there is very little real justification for doing so. You can also steer with your feet, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.
-td
Sure you can slow the car exclusively with the engine, but there is very little real justification for doing so. You can also steer with your feet, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.
-td
03-18-2012, 11:58 AM
#80
All this talk about heel toeing........ really? You guys heel toe on the way to work? You can't be serious. Track days and DEs, yes, on the street is just silly. If you're driving on the street in a 996 to the point that you need to heel toe you're an idiot, and being reckless.
This thread IS fun!!!
This thread IS fun!!!
Good driving technique doesn't equate to reckless. In fact, a great way to learn proper heel toe is on the street. It's silly to not do it if you can. No extra effort, easier on the car, and good practice.
Why wouldn't you do it?
-td
03-18-2012, 12:56 PM
#81
Three Wheelin'
Heel toe everywhere. Yes. Absolutely. Idiot? Nope. Not even close.
Good driving technique doesn't equate to reckless. In fact, a great way to learn proper heel toe is on the street. It's silly to not do it if you can. No extra effort, easier on the car, and good practice.
Why wouldn't you do it?
-td
Good driving technique doesn't equate to reckless. In fact, a great way to learn proper heel toe is on the street. It's silly to not do it if you can. No extra effort, easier on the car, and good practice.
Why wouldn't you do it?
-td
At a minimum I rev match all my downshifts, heel and toe where the situation merits it.
Why jerk my drivetrain around if I don't have to?
Sometimes I'm driving fast, some times I'm not. Makes no difference. The benefits of heel/toe and rev matched downshifts are the same.
03-18-2012, 01:25 PM
#82
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I guess I just don't understand heel toe. I've done it (clumsily I might ad) just to see what it was all about. And I think "learning it on the street" is pretty ridiculous. A parking lot or a back road maybe.
I've been in cars on track with professional and experienced drivers and seen them do it.
I raced karts for 4 years (no heel toe needed there). I've been riding bikes for 20+ years and I've had sports car of some kind most of my driving life, but I've never found the need to heel toe.
Maybe there is a way to drive responsibly on the street and heel toe? My only experience with it (and the seeming NEED for it) is going from high speed high revs into a turn in order to keep the power curve. I just don't see why thats needed on everyday driving. Maybe you guys live in an area where there aren't many cars on the twisty roads with no speed limits.
Most of the turns I make require stopping and looking both ways.
I've been in cars on track with professional and experienced drivers and seen them do it.
I raced karts for 4 years (no heel toe needed there). I've been riding bikes for 20+ years and I've had sports car of some kind most of my driving life, but I've never found the need to heel toe.
Maybe there is a way to drive responsibly on the street and heel toe? My only experience with it (and the seeming NEED for it) is going from high speed high revs into a turn in order to keep the power curve. I just don't see why thats needed on everyday driving. Maybe you guys live in an area where there aren't many cars on the twisty roads with no speed limits.
Most of the turns I make require stopping and looking both ways.
03-18-2012, 03:09 PM
#83
Three Wheelin'
I guess I just don't understand heel toe. I've done it (clumsily I might ad) just to see what it was all about. And I think "learning it on the street" is pretty ridiculous. A parking lot or a back road maybe.
I've been in cars on track with professional and experienced drivers and seen them do it.
I raced karts for 4 years (no heel toe needed there). I've been riding bikes for 20+ years and I've had sports car of some kind most of my driving life, but I've never found the need to heel toe.
Maybe there is a way to drive responsibly on the street and heel toe? My only experience with it (and the seeming NEED for it) is going from high speed high revs into a turn in order to keep the power curve. I just don't see why thats needed on everyday driving. Maybe you guys live in an area where there aren't many cars on the twisty roads with no speed limits.
Most of the turns I make require stopping and looking both ways.
I've been in cars on track with professional and experienced drivers and seen them do it.
I raced karts for 4 years (no heel toe needed there). I've been riding bikes for 20+ years and I've had sports car of some kind most of my driving life, but I've never found the need to heel toe.
Maybe there is a way to drive responsibly on the street and heel toe? My only experience with it (and the seeming NEED for it) is going from high speed high revs into a turn in order to keep the power curve. I just don't see why thats needed on everyday driving. Maybe you guys live in an area where there aren't many cars on the twisty roads with no speed limits.
Most of the turns I make require stopping and looking both ways.
1) Match the speed of the gears in the box and the speed of the flywheel and clutch plate to reduce wear and tear on the synchros and the clutch plate.
2) Eliminate the lurching that occurs when the clutch is let out on a downshift. This lurching can be deadly at track speeds - on the street it just makes for a smoother ride.
Just because guys do it at track speeds doesn't mean you need to be traveling at track speeds to do it.
Hey - hey ...let's talk about trail braking next!
You know - braking into a corner. Bet there's some "experts" who will tell you to never do that either.
03-18-2012, 03:13 PM
#84
Three Wheelin'
So you're telling me that when you're out riding your bike and the need arises to shift into first while the bike is still rolling (for instance if the light goes green *just* before you come to a complete stop) that you don't double clutch into first gear?
What do you do? Just ram it in to gear and accept the clunk and grind as normal?
Nice.
What do you do? Just ram it in to gear and accept the clunk and grind as normal?
Nice.
03-18-2012, 03:32 PM
#85
Three Wheelin'
Oops - I'm being sloppy a bit.
Double clutching will reduce wear on the synchros while simply rev matching gives all the other benefits. Heel and toe is required in both cases. I kind of combined double clutching and heel and toe in my head.
Looking back to the Tiptronic discussion - I should have noted that Tips blip the throttle on downshift - effectively every downshift is heel and toed by the computers.
You won't find this "disagreement" happening on the air cooled boards. Not heel and toeing is simply not an option with a 915 transmission...unless you're ok with blatant mechanical abuse.
Double clutching will reduce wear on the synchros while simply rev matching gives all the other benefits. Heel and toe is required in both cases. I kind of combined double clutching and heel and toe in my head.
Looking back to the Tiptronic discussion - I should have noted that Tips blip the throttle on downshift - effectively every downshift is heel and toed by the computers.
You won't find this "disagreement" happening on the air cooled boards. Not heel and toeing is simply not an option with a 915 transmission...unless you're ok with blatant mechanical abuse.
03-18-2012, 04:02 PM
#86
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So you're telling me that when you're out riding your bike and the need arises to shift into first while the bike is still rolling (for instance if the light goes green *just* before you come to a complete stop) that you don't double clutch into first gear?
What do you do? Just ram it in to gear and accept the clunk and grind as normal?
Nice.
What do you do? Just ram it in to gear and accept the clunk and grind as normal?
Nice.
I don't profess to be a Valentino Rossi, or Lewis Hamilton as many guys on forums do, this one included. Anyone who drives a sports car feels they're good drivers. Funny thing is, I've been to tons of track events ( races, DEs, autocross, etc... ), I don't participate, just a spectator (unless im racing my kart) Anyway, there are always a bunch of "meh" drivers and a few that stand out. How come it always seems when it comes to 'talk' there are always a lot more stand outs than 'meh' drivers?
First gear is pretty useless unless you ARE stopped.
The fact that most bikes red line at anywhere between 9-11k you've got plenty of room in all other gears. That applies to my 996 as well. I don't see the need to keep Rpms up when going into and through turns. I approach a turn, I press the brake, the car (engine) slows, I move the gear lever down into the proper gear, let out the clutch while I accelerate. I don't experience lurching or engine braking. And in all the years ive been riding and driving ive never had to replace gears, synchros or clutches. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
03-18-2012, 05:58 PM
#88
Three Wheelin'
Capt obvious is correct and that very poster has been on my mind since page 2.
Miickey, I'm sure you're a fine rider and I'll be willing to be a dollar to a donut that when you are on your bike you rev match before you let the clutch out after selecting a lower gear. You probably do this without thinking.
If you have ever done this while also applying the brake (must have happened a few times in 20 years) that's the quivalent of a heel and toe downshift in a car.
As far as lurching goes...you yourself said doing it on a bike is dangerous. Why would it be all that different in a car. Once again I bet you apply a little bit of throttle before you (or as you) let out the clutch.
Its kind of part of the deal.
Anyway, lest I prove Cpt obvious any more right, I'll let this go.
I use Motul 8100 15-40 by the way....
Miickey, I'm sure you're a fine rider and I'll be willing to be a dollar to a donut that when you are on your bike you rev match before you let the clutch out after selecting a lower gear. You probably do this without thinking.
If you have ever done this while also applying the brake (must have happened a few times in 20 years) that's the quivalent of a heel and toe downshift in a car.
As far as lurching goes...you yourself said doing it on a bike is dangerous. Why would it be all that different in a car. Once again I bet you apply a little bit of throttle before you (or as you) let out the clutch.
Its kind of part of the deal.
Anyway, lest I prove Cpt obvious any more right, I'll let this go.
I use Motul 8100 15-40 by the way....
( I'm pretty sure that's not PC )
03-18-2012, 08:02 PM
#90
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