How to drive a Porsche?
03-16-2012, 11:54 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
That's what I'm saying dude.
I ride bikes and have driven stick my whole life.
Downshifting to slow down to"save the brakes".?!?
Holy smokes, thanks for the backup. Can you believe this?
Maybe someones driving the speed limit in the left lane too?
I ride bikes and have driven stick my whole life.
Downshifting to slow down to"save the brakes".?!?
Holy smokes, thanks for the backup. Can you believe this?
Maybe someones driving the speed limit in the left lane too?
03-16-2012, 11:54 PM
#62
Rocky Mountain High
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Woo hoo! Five pages!
03-16-2012, 11:55 PM
#63
Rocky Mountain High
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On the topic of mileage, it's a good idea to check it the old fashioned way every now and then. You may find that your car's mileage computer is a bit optimistic. Mine is anyway...
03-17-2012, 12:23 AM
#64
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03-17-2012, 12:41 AM
#65
Three Wheelin'
Eric, thats fine, but if you have a way to drive your porsche so that it gets 15mpg or a way that it gets 20mpg, what is so wrong with driving it the 2nd way. There are plenty of times that I drive my 911 in a non spirited manner, because of a number of reasons, including not being in the mood, wanting to just relax, and yeah, not wanting to burn fuel needlessly. I'm old enough that I don't need or want to cruise at 4000rpm just to hear the exhaust.
-Eric
03-17-2012, 03:05 AM
#66
Three Wheelin'
Since we're on the topic of gas mileage:
Lets say you drive 12000 miles per year.
Drive your car nice and easy all the time, totally missing the point of driving a Porsche, and you'll average 20 mpg. You'll use 600 gallons of gas. At $4 per gallon you'll spend a total of $2400.
Driving it like it's meant to be driven though and you'll average 17 mpg. In that case you'll use 700 gallons of gas and you'll spend $2800.
So for $400 per year I can either enjoy my Porsche or use it like I would a Toyota. Yeah - I'll spend the extra buck a day.
Lets say you drive 12000 miles per year.
Drive your car nice and easy all the time, totally missing the point of driving a Porsche, and you'll average 20 mpg. You'll use 600 gallons of gas. At $4 per gallon you'll spend a total of $2400.
Driving it like it's meant to be driven though and you'll average 17 mpg. In that case you'll use 700 gallons of gas and you'll spend $2800.
So for $400 per year I can either enjoy my Porsche or use it like I would a Toyota. Yeah - I'll spend the extra buck a day.
03-17-2012, 10:31 AM
#67
Since we're on the topic of gas mileage:
Lets say you drive 12000 miles per year.
Drive your car nice and easy all the time, totally missing the point of driving a Porsche, and you'll average 20 mpg. You'll use 600 gallons of gas. At $4 per gallon you'll spend a total of $2400.
Driving it like it's meant to be driven though and you'll average 17 mpg. In that case you'll use 700 gallons of gas and you'll spend $2800.
So for $400 per year I can either enjoy my Porsche or use it like I would a Toyota. Yeah - I'll spend the extra buck a day.
Lets say you drive 12000 miles per year.
Drive your car nice and easy all the time, totally missing the point of driving a Porsche, and you'll average 20 mpg. You'll use 600 gallons of gas. At $4 per gallon you'll spend a total of $2400.
Driving it like it's meant to be driven though and you'll average 17 mpg. In that case you'll use 700 gallons of gas and you'll spend $2800.
So for $400 per year I can either enjoy my Porsche or use it like I would a Toyota. Yeah - I'll spend the extra buck a day.
As to driving style, I just drive by the "feel" of the car. I think every vehichle has a "sweet spot" where the mechanicals are best in balance and harmony and I tend feel that and ride in it.
Both cars, according to the onboard, average 19.3 mpg.
Drive, enjoy, stay safe.
03-17-2012, 12:58 PM
#68
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I'm somewhat disappointed in the gas mileage of my 996. I purchased it thinking that I'd be able to go from 0-60mph at 23 mpg. Just not getting what I expected. Perhaps a turbo will get better mileage...
03-17-2012, 01:18 PM
#69
Just did a bit of Internet research on this topic. Apparently there is as much disagreement and emotion on "Engine Braking" as there is on "which oil to use". Not gonna be solved here.
Last edited by wyovino; 03-17-2012 at 02:00 PM.
03-17-2012, 07:15 PM
#70
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Tiptronics (in automatic mode) downshift automatically when the brake is applied, depending on the severity of the deceleration.
Just did a bit of Internet research on this topic. Apparently there is as much disagreement and emotion on "Engine Braking" as there is on "which oil to use". Not gonna be solved here.
Just did a bit of Internet research on this topic. Apparently there is as much disagreement and emotion on "Engine Braking" as there is on "which oil to use". Not gonna be solved here.
03-17-2012, 09:02 PM
#71
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I'm with the brakes - not clutch - to slow down camp. I just spent some big bucks to put in a new clutch. Most of that was labor. Needed a specialty shop to do the work. The guys at my shop just don't have the experience or special tools to do this kind of stuff. The brake pads? Heck, I can see them right there behind the wheels! One of the Saab techs could blow this job out as a favor.
If I'm tempted to downshift to brake (I sort of used to believe that was how you're supposed to drive a sports car) I imagine the extra wear, the shortened clutch life I'd be causing. Doesn't seem cost-effective and I really don't get much in the way of kicks hearing the engine rev up to match the speed of the car. Not enough bang for the buck. Besides, these cars have a $1000 dual mass flywhell. No point torquing this thing out of shape before its time.
I agree that working through turns on a twisty road, you often need to be in a lower gear to accomodate the slower speeds required to make it through a turn. But I think most of that happens coming out of the turn ( or maybe mid-turn in the long sweepers), after the speed is scrubbed off. That, to me, where rev-matching comes into play. I'm no pro racer, not even an amature, for that matter. But I've done my share of driving and I know what's worked for me at the instinctive level. I even think automatics suffer from manual downshifting over the life of the car. I know there are some newer auto trans "sport" modes that hold the lower gears at certain times and downshift early when coming to a stop, providing some engine braking. But for most street driving, I think the power train should be for power and the brake system should be for braking.
If I'm tempted to downshift to brake (I sort of used to believe that was how you're supposed to drive a sports car) I imagine the extra wear, the shortened clutch life I'd be causing. Doesn't seem cost-effective and I really don't get much in the way of kicks hearing the engine rev up to match the speed of the car. Not enough bang for the buck. Besides, these cars have a $1000 dual mass flywhell. No point torquing this thing out of shape before its time.
I agree that working through turns on a twisty road, you often need to be in a lower gear to accomodate the slower speeds required to make it through a turn. But I think most of that happens coming out of the turn ( or maybe mid-turn in the long sweepers), after the speed is scrubbed off. That, to me, where rev-matching comes into play. I'm no pro racer, not even an amature, for that matter. But I've done my share of driving and I know what's worked for me at the instinctive level. I even think automatics suffer from manual downshifting over the life of the car. I know there are some newer auto trans "sport" modes that hold the lower gears at certain times and downshift early when coming to a stop, providing some engine braking. But for most street driving, I think the power train should be for power and the brake system should be for braking.
03-17-2012, 09:16 PM
#72
Three Wheelin'
Using engine braking to keep a steady speed while traveling downhill is not what we're talking about. That falls squarely under the "select the correct gear for maintaining forward motion while keeping the engine rpm at speed appropriate for the type of driving that is being done". Using a lower gear in this case isn't about saving brakes, it's about keeping your brakes from overheating.
It's a whole other story when a so called professionaly trained drivers says he goes down through the gears when he's coming to a stop
as a motorcyclist would so he can save his brakes !!There isn't disagreement on this point anymore than there is disagreement about whether Hitler was justified in his actions during the holocaust.
Yes, there are people who will take a contrary view, but they are simply wrong.
*Are we at page 6 yet? - Godwin's law has been satisfied.
03-17-2012, 09:37 PM
#73
There are "experts" on both sides who are equally as vocal. I went for a nice ride today and watched what happened during braking in both modes. The Tip downshifts a step at a time until the car comes to a stop, even in manual mode. This tells me that my manual downshifting isn't doing anything that Porsche doesn't expect to happen.
While there is a lot of conjecture about what bad things can happen by downshifting, there was no one in the threads I read who provided first-hand knowledge of such events. Maybe someone will chime in here with a first-hand experience. This seems to be another "range war" topic which will never result in agreement.
I'm making no assumptions about manual transmissions, just an observation about my automatic. YMMV.
While there is a lot of conjecture about what bad things can happen by downshifting, there was no one in the threads I read who provided first-hand knowledge of such events. Maybe someone will chime in here with a first-hand experience. This seems to be another "range war" topic which will never result in agreement.
I'm making no assumptions about manual transmissions, just an observation about my automatic. YMMV.
03-17-2012, 10:10 PM
#74
Three Wheelin'
No...those would be people who *think* they are experts - like HurdiGurdi the proffessionaly trained driver.
Automatics in general and tips in particular are not what we're talking about. None of the wear and tear of the clutch and gearbox synchronisers occurs. Totally different animal.
With regards vehicle stability...the tip downshift happen when you are hard on the brakes...which overrides the shifting of weight as the lower gears hits....totally different style of driving and not really relevant to the conversation going on.
OK - when I was very young and foolish I was racing my BMW 2002 down the road and I geared down hard as I turned in to the road leading into our subdivision. The rear locked up, the car went sideways and I hit a very large sign post. Dented the nose up very well. Should have used the brakes.
Have you ever rode a motorcycle ? Try this next time you're on one; Select a lower gear while you are riding in a straight line but don't touch the front brake or apply any throttle. You notice the rear wheel locks up and skids? Try that in the rain once in traffic and then come back and tell me how much fun it was cleaning the mess out of your shorts.
You're right - there will be no agreement so long as their are people out there who don't understand machinery or vehicle dynamics...and they will always be there.
With regards vehicle stability...the tip downshift happen when you are hard on the brakes...which overrides the shifting of weight as the lower gears hits....totally different style of driving and not really relevant to the conversation going on.
Have you ever rode a motorcycle ? Try this next time you're on one; Select a lower gear while you are riding in a straight line but don't touch the front brake or apply any throttle. You notice the rear wheel locks up and skids? Try that in the rain once in traffic and then come back and tell me how much fun it was cleaning the mess out of your shorts.
You're right - there will be no agreement so long as their are people out there who don't understand machinery or vehicle dynamics...and they will always be there.
03-17-2012, 10:16 PM
#75
Three Wheelin'
Mark - it sounds like you should be giving advice not asking for it.
Looking back at your first post it strikes me that the correct response would have been for you to seek out your local Porsche Club and then participate in a Drivers Ed event - otherwise known as a track day.
The events are very safe, and you'll be in a novice group so you'll have an instructor with you at all times.
You'll learn how to brake and downshift safely for high performance driving and you'll be able to explore the limits of your car in a safe environment. Besides being a lot of fun, it makes you a better safer driver.
I know your question was more about preserving the mechanical health of your car rather than performance driving technique, but the two are linked.
Enjoy your car and don't worry about breaking it. It's obvious from your posts that you'll be fine.
Looking back at your first post it strikes me that the correct response would have been for you to seek out your local Porsche Club and then participate in a Drivers Ed event - otherwise known as a track day.
The events are very safe, and you'll be in a novice group so you'll have an instructor with you at all times.
You'll learn how to brake and downshift safely for high performance driving and you'll be able to explore the limits of your car in a safe environment. Besides being a lot of fun, it makes you a better safer driver.
I know your question was more about preserving the mechanical health of your car rather than performance driving technique, but the two are linked.
Enjoy your car and don't worry about breaking it. It's obvious from your posts that you'll be fine.
I'm with the brakes - not clutch - to slow down camp. I just spent some big bucks to put in a new clutch. Most of that was labor. Needed a specialty shop to do the work. The guys at my shop just don't have the experience or special tools to do this kind of stuff. The brake pads? Heck, I can see them right there behind the wheels! One of the Saab techs could blow this job out as a favor.
If I'm tempted to downshift to brake (I sort of used to believe that was how you're supposed to drive a sports car) I imagine the extra wear, the shortened clutch life I'd be causing. Doesn't seem cost-effective and I really don't get much in the way of kicks hearing the engine rev up to match the speed of the car. Not enough bang for the buck. Besides, these cars have a $1000 dual mass flywhell. No point torquing this thing out of shape before its time.
I agree that working through turns on a twisty road, you often need to be in a lower gear to accomodate the slower speeds required to make it through a turn. But I think most of that happens coming out of the turn ( or maybe mid-turn in the long sweepers), after the speed is scrubbed off. That, to me, where rev-matching comes into play. I'm no pro racer, not even an amature, for that matter. But I've done my share of driving and I know what's worked for me at the instinctive level. I even think automatics suffer from manual downshifting over the life of the car. I know there are some newer auto trans "sport" modes that hold the lower gears at certain times and downshift early when coming to a stop, providing some engine braking. But for most street driving, I think the power train should be for power and the brake system should be for braking.
If I'm tempted to downshift to brake (I sort of used to believe that was how you're supposed to drive a sports car) I imagine the extra wear, the shortened clutch life I'd be causing. Doesn't seem cost-effective and I really don't get much in the way of kicks hearing the engine rev up to match the speed of the car. Not enough bang for the buck. Besides, these cars have a $1000 dual mass flywhell. No point torquing this thing out of shape before its time.
I agree that working through turns on a twisty road, you often need to be in a lower gear to accomodate the slower speeds required to make it through a turn. But I think most of that happens coming out of the turn ( or maybe mid-turn in the long sweepers), after the speed is scrubbed off. That, to me, where rev-matching comes into play. I'm no pro racer, not even an amature, for that matter. But I've done my share of driving and I know what's worked for me at the instinctive level. I even think automatics suffer from manual downshifting over the life of the car. I know there are some newer auto trans "sport" modes that hold the lower gears at certain times and downshift early when coming to a stop, providing some engine braking. But for most street driving, I think the power train should be for power and the brake system should be for braking.