Oil analysis report - high iron, copper, and magnesium. Should I be concerned?
#16
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I reviewed your UOA. I would like to send you a study that I recently carried out on this topic that includes teardown pictures from an engine that had similar UOA values of iron and copper.
If you can email me at jake@rabyenginedevelopment.com I'll get it to you next week.
If you can email me at jake@rabyenginedevelopment.com I'll get it to you next week.
#17
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I reviewed your UOA. I would like to send you a study that I recently carried out on this topic that includes teardown pictures from an engine that had similar UOA values of iron and copper.
If you can email me at jake@rabyenginedevelopment.com I'll get it to you next week.
If you can email me at jake@rabyenginedevelopment.com I'll get it to you next week.
Email sent. Really appreciate your help and expert opinion and I look forward to your study. I'm already using your magnetic drain plug and a low temp thermo. I'm currently trying to assess the general health of my engine and see if anything needs to be done.
I have been using Motul for the past 4 years with oil change every 5000 miles/1yr. All maintenance are up to date and engine always warmed up before being pushed.
Again thanks for your help
#18
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This is the latest oil report, about a year from my original post.
The iron and copper levels have come down a bit but still in the same order of magnitude. Engine feels strong and smooth, no oil leak, no strange noises, etc. The only thing is it's burning oil at ~1,600 miles/quart, which it's been doing since new. Quite a bit of oily grime build up under the outside of the throttle body where the PCV vent line plugs into it. My theory is a lot of oil vapor is sucked in through that vent line due to the sub par AOS.
2013-02-02 oil report edited.pdf
The iron and copper levels have come down a bit but still in the same order of magnitude. Engine feels strong and smooth, no oil leak, no strange noises, etc. The only thing is it's burning oil at ~1,600 miles/quart, which it's been doing since new. Quite a bit of oily grime build up under the outside of the throttle body where the PCV vent line plugs into it. My theory is a lot of oil vapor is sucked in through that vent line due to the sub par AOS.
2013-02-02 oil report edited.pdf
#19
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Quite a bit of oily grime build up under the outside of the throttle body where the PCV vent line plugs into it. My theory is a lot of oil vapor is sucked in through that vent line due to the sub par AOS.
This effects fuel trim values and impacts engine management.
The ONLY copper within these engines is the dermis layer of the rod and main bearings. Iron high followed by copper being high is classic and we know what causes it. Here is a picture from my study that shows this very clearly. The engine studied had 47K miles on it, was one owner, never tracked and always serviced. The classic recipe for unexpected failures. We saved this one and I am testing it after reassembly as we speak.
![](https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/321062_567951543232645_1830539340_n.jpg)
#20
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Thanks for your expoert info, Jake. That makes a lot of sense. I started UOA only last year and already saw BOTH copper and iron that high so maybe the wear had started even earlier. So what to do? Just switch to DT40 and keep doing UOA?
I also heard the oil cooler is also made of copper/brass but can hardly imagine they will shed material constantly.
I measured the crankcase vacuum last week via the oil filler tube. It read ~6" water so not too bad. Long term fuel trims are at +5% on both banks so not bad either. No oil leak around RMS/IMS. Everything looks so perfect....except the UOAs
I also heard the oil cooler is also made of copper/brass but can hardly imagine they will shed material constantly.
I measured the crankcase vacuum last week via the oil filler tube. It read ~6" water so not too bad. Long term fuel trims are at +5% on both banks so not bad either. No oil leak around RMS/IMS. Everything looks so perfect....except the UOAs
![Frown](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
Last edited by Ahsai; 02-02-2013 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Corrected typo
#21
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based on the position of the oil/ coolant heat exchanger in the oil system, if it sheds material that goes straight to the rod and main bearings as unfiltered oil... This material has always come from the bearings in my previous experiences and we are seeing more and more of these occurrences now.
#22
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based on the position of the oil/ coolant heat exchanger in the oil system, if it sheds material that goes straight to the rod and main bearings as unfiltered oil... This material has always come from the bearings in my previous experiences and we are seeing more and more of these occurrences now.
I assume I will need to watch out for low oil pressure and any rod knocking noise from now on. Maybe it's the best opportunity to try out DT40 and keep doing UOAs....
#23
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Last oil analysis showed slightly high copper but nothing black stone was too concerned about. Smog passed with no issues. I put some of the consumption issues down to 0w oil on cold starts ..oil consumption is less per mile on long runs ...
#24
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I'm also burning a quart around every 1.5k miles .. @ 61k now .. Higher than I would like but everything seems ok .. Mobile 1 ow40 ...
Last oil analysis showed slightly high copper but nothing black stone was too concerned about. Smog passed with no issues. I put some of the consumption issues down to 0w oil on cold starts ..oil consumption is less per mile on long runs ...
Last oil analysis showed slightly high copper but nothing black stone was too concerned about. Smog passed with no issues. I put some of the consumption issues down to 0w oil on cold starts ..oil consumption is less per mile on long runs ...
#25
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Everytime you guys post these and JR responds, Im afraid to start my car for fear of it imploding or blowing its guts through the pan. ![crying](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigcry.gif)
But seriously, I would be concerned about the oil analysis and excessive oil consumption. Your engine might be a candidate for the flush and fill with JG DT40, then get a new analysis just to see what happens.
![crying](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigcry.gif)
But seriously, I would be concerned about the oil analysis and excessive oil consumption. Your engine might be a candidate for the flush and fill with JG DT40, then get a new analysis just to see what happens.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#26
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Everytime you guys post these and JR responds, Im afraid to start my car for fear of it imploding or blowing its guts through the pan. ![crying](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigcry.gif)
But seriously, I would be concerned about the oil analysis and excessive oil consumption. Your engine might be a candidate for the flush and fill with JG DT40, then get a new analysis just to see what happens.![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![crying](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigcry.gif)
But seriously, I would be concerned about the oil analysis and excessive oil consumption. Your engine might be a candidate for the flush and fill with JG DT40, then get a new analysis just to see what happens.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Btw, Jake had mentioned before there are 20+ modes of failure for these engines so in a way I was not too surprised about my situation...
#27
Former Vendor
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Everytime you guys post these and JR responds, Im afraid to start my car for fear of it imploding or blowing its guts through the pan.
Ahsai, once damage is done, its done and it will not get any better without intervention. Right now you have no other symptoms so finding someone in your area that has mechanical aptitude and common sense would be advisable. Technicians know how to plug in a scan tool into your vehicle, unfortunately thats not going to alleviate your issue.
#28
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And thats why I am checking out from forum contributions. I see the worst of the worst and nothing comes to us just needing "service work".
Ahsai, once damage is done, its done and it will not get any better without intervention. Right now you have no other symptoms so finding someone in your area that has mechanical aptitude and common sense would be advisable. Technicians know how to plug in a scan tool into your vehicle, unfortunately thats not going to alleviate your issue.
Ahsai, once damage is done, its done and it will not get any better without intervention. Right now you have no other symptoms so finding someone in your area that has mechanical aptitude and common sense would be advisable. Technicians know how to plug in a scan tool into your vehicle, unfortunately thats not going to alleviate your issue.
#29
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