Jacks911

I agree with Larry $895 for 20 HP ?.... this is a 7% gain - If it is really available for your available pump gas. Regular Shell up here is at best 92 and with Ethanol now. If I believed TechArt, I already have nearly 20 more HP with my Exhaust System. And that cost the PO $3500. That make this look like a good deal. TechArt advertises a 25 HP Gain with a Flash plus the Exhaust and a hi flow air filter. So if you really want a bit more the Flash may be worth it to you but... what are you giving up? I am really very happy with the power and Throttle response of my Carrera, so I would be happy with a better tank of Ethanol free 94 octane gas.

jdjones2010

morgan, that's one thing I've noticed on the Porsches is it costs mega $$$ for just a few extra hp, this chip pretty much stays along the same price per hp as everything else. Which I've never thought any of them were worth it, I guess thats why mine is still stock. Same as the carbon fiber, it looks good but not THAT good! jmo

NZ951

All power in NA applications costs a lot, its not a Porsche specific issue!

I spent around 15k on my Toyota 1600cc race motor for an extra 45WHP.

ttreat

Last year at the PCA Tech Tactics East I sat in on a session on tuning by Scott Slauson. He said as a general rule most Porsche ECU's were designed to about 90% of their performance potential. Scott also said that there are a lot of people out there claim to be experts making ECU flashes. I am no expert but it would be very unlikely that Porsche would program the ECU such that it is at the limit. There are compromises as a ECU map that takes an engine closer to its limits has less margin for error and can result in reliability issues.

82_930

The ad reads $895 but also has the option to "Make Offer", which means that they will take less for just one customer... I am sure that the discount will be further for multiple orders.

Remember, this is just software download, and a USB cable (which probably is under $20)... They made their costs back a long time ago.



+1

I have flashed NA cars as well, and I can tell you that anything under 30hp will NOT be felt...

Also, I wonder if they raise the rev limiter? To me (from a very baddddd experience) this is a totally stupid and dangerous thing to do.

If this software has safe parameters, then the decision is just a function of cost. 22 crank hp is not the same as 22 wheel horse power (which is true hp)...so it's not like you will feel it, but you will have it.

ttreat

Regarding the OBD II lockdown for emissions...
This is ridiculous. I think it is important to be a good steward of the environment but for the number of cars that really would want to cheat the test I think it would be a waste of tax payer and manufacturer resources to try to implement what was proposed. I would like to know the true percentage of tuned cars versus the total number of cars out on the street. It is probably even much less than the number of "heavy" vehicles that do not have to meet the emissions and mileage regulations.

This reminds me of the environmentalist that were (are) trying to mandate a speed limit on the autobahn. Doing so would have minimal impact on pollution as much of the autobahn already has speed limits and in areas where there are no limits everybody is not driving at WOT.

pmkazz

Great write-up and right on the money. Or save your money for a turbo if you want more HP.

BruceP

Yes, it is, if this is what you wanted to hear. But it's not really technically factual, and the author has by his own admission never driven a modified car.

For one thing, Porsche did leave "horsepower on the table." I refer you to the earlier poster's comment from the tech seminar. There is absolutely no chance these engines were shipped at 100% of their potential, given the risk Porsche has on things like variable fuel quality. And that's just one reason they would tune conservatively. I'm happy to bore you with the vagaries of the EPA urban drive cycle, if you're up for it. It's up to you to decide if the gains matter or are worth the money, but it's not true to say they're imaginary.

I also agree that raising the redline slightly doesn't mean much. That is, unless you autocross, where being able to delay a shift for another 300 rpm can, on some courses, be quite meaningful. DreamCarrera incorrectly characterizes the benefit, here. It's not about more horsepower, it's about the gap between gear ratios and the horsepower you'd be making if you were forced to upshift. A small market, I admit, but somebody out there cares.

I think when people say that they think these mods don't do anything, it's kind of an insult to those of us who spent the money. I totally support anybody's right to an opinion about whether these mods are worth it. It's not necessary to take it to the point where you imply people like me are imagining things and thus fools.

DreamCarrera

Dude - Relax, I never said your gains were imaginary and neither I nor the previous poster insulted you in any way. And certainly no one called you a "fool". Why so defensive? I simply stated that the gains to be realized by modifying these NA 996s pale in comparison to the cost, which is simply MHO. I stated that Porsche left “very little” on the table, I did not say that Porsche left “nothing” on the table. Is there something to be gained from certain mods? Of course there is, Porsche detuned these cars for real world owners. The real question is whether or not the mods are worth it. It is up to each individual owner to decide whether or not the slight bump in HP is worth the extra cost. To me it is not worth it. This is just my opinion, nothing more. You yourself previously stated that the money you spent on mods was probably not worth it, or something to that effect. It's true that I have never driven a modified 996 but I'd be willing to bet my but dyno couldn't tell the difference as I was unable to detect the extra power of a 996 MKII compared to my MKI.

Also, I did not incorrectly characterize anything in my discussion on raising the redline. Perhaps you should go back and re-read my post before calling me out in such a way. I am well aware of the reasoning behind raising the redline. As I previously stated, these cars make peak HP at about 6800 RPM and after that the HP falls off abruptly. IMHO, and I do track/AX the car, the 7,300 RPM redline is sufficient. The gearing in these cars is close enough that shifting at the redline leaves you in the meat of the HP/TQ curve when entering the next higher gear. Would raising the redline a few hundred RPM help here? Maybe or maybe not, but it would not be worth the potential risks to the engine.

There is absolutely no reason to take offense to my comments and I certainly never claimed that you were imagining things.

jdjones2010

I'm NO WHERE near as knowledgeable as you guys are on this matter, BUT like I said before put it on the DYNO, end of discussion! jmo

BruceP

You'd think. But I've never seen a dyno posted to a board like this where people didn't chime in about how unreliable dynos were and how you can't control for changes in ambient conditions between the pre- and post-mod runs. There is no evidence-based case that will convince someone away from their position on mods, pro or con.

It's not just this board, either. People get religious about this subject for some reason.

BruceP

I will never defend what I spent. This is called being reasonable and letting people make their own conclusions. I've never seen an enthusiast message board where people could have a civil conversation about this, so I try not to look like I have a strong opinion or to impose it on others. But neither did I say I regretted what I spent. Let's face it, some people don't think Porsches are worth the money, either. While it's true you parsed your language as you say, it is also true that you are essentially dismissing the value of these mods without either technical or personal experience. I think that needs to be called out so that nobody mistakes a well written post for an accurate one.

I was careful to say that this might not be interesting to everyone, just what it was for. I will add that your track experience with the car cannot be generalized to all tracks and all drivers. Racers like to make their own decisions about shift points. It's a relatively long way from second to third in this car, and torque starts to fall off a couple thousand rpm before the horsepower peak. For someone, somewhere, that might be worth a few hundredths. The blanket statement that "7,300 rpm is sufficient" is true for you, but, again, not universally so.

Butt dynos, to use your term, are infallible. Nobody's is wrong, which is why I never defend my mods. It's legitimate to say, "I drove one, and couldn't tell the difference." It's less legitimate to say, "I've never driven one, but I bet I couldn't tell the difference."

DreamCarrera

This statement is not accurate. I am not completely dismissing mods as worthless but I do question their value for the NA 996s based purely on economic terms. While it is true that I have never personally modified my 996, I have owned my car(996) for about 7 years now and during that time I have toyed with the idea of modifying the car. I have investigated various mods and I have researched the claims made by the manufacturers, those who have purchased the products, as well as dyno results posted by both the manufacturers and customers. So I would say that my understanding of the various mods is somewhat educated but I am certainly by no means an expert.

In the end I decided that the gains to be achieved by modifying my 996 were not worth the expense to me. You chose otherwise and I certainly respect your choice.

I’d be willing to bet good money that if we dyno tested our cars side by side, my bone stock 2000 C2 vs. your modified 2000 C2(I think you have a 2000?), your car would put up better numbers. I’d also be willing to bet that the increase in power would not be enough to prompt me to purchase the mods for my car, although all of this is pure speculation. One thing I am sure of, however is that we will not be doing this side by side test anytime soon so my $X,000 is safely tucked in the bank for now.

BruceP

The funny thing is, I don't have a lot of interest in the numbers. I've never been much of a bench racer. I haven't even had my car dynoed. I did what I did because I had a certain goal in mind, which was to give the car a more 'analog' personality without making it high strung or compromising reliability. Powertrain mod-wise, I did the SSK, intake, plenum, flash, exhaust and RS motor mounts. I think if you drove it, you'd agree it feels different than yours. That's something you just can't know any other way.

To me, unless you race, that's what tuning is about. Customizing, more than improving (this is also a great 911 tradition). That's why I'm reluctant to judge the value of a mod, especially on paper. It is, in the end, 100% subjective.

DreamCarrera

That’s a great point. Modifying a car to change its personality is often overlooked and usually gets lost in the emphasis on performance numbers.

Unfortunately, to really get a feel for this(personality change) you need to test the mod before buying which is hard to do unless you can test drive a car that already has the modifications you are considering.

I’ve been kicking around the idea of replacing my stock suspension with an ROW M030 or PSS10 set up to give the car a more go-cart type feel, not to mention the other benefits of a sportier suspension. However, as of yet, I have been unable to secure a test drive in a car with these suspension mods.