oraph

Hi everyone.. recently joined the forum and wanted to pick everyone's brain a bit.

Coming from a BMW background i don't have much knowledge about Porsche.
I am in the market for a 996 c4s or a turbo(if the price is right)

I recently looked at a 2003 c4s with 62k.
The car has some maintenance paperwork from a reputable shop and the 2nd(current) owner but not extensive.
-mostly oil changes and small fixes
-air filter/ polen filter
-H&R springs
-oem ssk
-sport exhaust

area of concern..
1. ims/ rms issues - from my research it seems that these go early in the engine life and if they lasted this long, there is a very small chance of this happening. Is that accurate?

2. The clutch is very stiff... i assume it will need a new clutch soon. What else should be replaced while the clutch is being done and how important is it to replace the fly wheel at the same time? What kind of cost am i looking at?

3. in general is it good idea to buy a Porsche, knowing it will need a clutch very soon if the price of the car reflects this... or ma i asking for problems?

4. finally what would you expect to pay for a 03 996 c4s that needs clutch (in in ca)?

any help would be appreciated..

dotframe

my 2 cents as a fairly new owner of a 2003 C4S...

1 - RMS/IMS issues - I wouldn't worry unless you are leaking. Just plan to change the RMS and put in an LNE IMS bearing during your next clutch replacement (that is what I did)

2 - See #1. Also lots of people re-use the flywheel if it is still in spec. It seems every shop is different. Mine said they rarely see a used flywheel that meets the spec, others say they rarely see one that doesn't. I went with a new one for piece of mind.

3 - If you are stretching your budget just to get the car, unless you have a warranty you could easily find yourself in trouble. My clutch went out after only a few months of purchasing the car. Having to pay for that right before christmas just about killed me. Well not really, but the wife was none too happy.

4 - There will be people here that will say their indy did a full clutch/rms/ims for $20...I paid a rather expensive shop here in Austin to do my clutch, flywheel, rms, and IMSB about $3600. That included an oil change

NZ951

A stiff clutch do you mean clutch pedal feel? May just need bleeding...

oraph

i do mean pedal feel....
and... mechanic that did maintenance on the car said that it needs a new clutch, at 62k the clutch is original

chsu74

Porsche clutch feels much stiffer than BMW. The problem with Pcar clutch is that you will not know it needs replacement until it is very close to failing. Often times, the flywheel is burnt from the worn clutch that it also needs replacement.

Macster

Then you either believe the indy or you don't.

If he's going by clutch feel alone -- deciding the clutch needs doing because the pedal pressure is high -- he must be basing this on his experience with these cars.

I've been told that a hard clutch pedal is a sign a clutch (Porsche clutch anyhow) is probably in need of doing. My info is the clutch wear results in a decrease in mechanical leverage and the pedal becomes hard(er) to depress as the clutch wears.

I have never had a chance to feel a Porsche clutch pedal that is in need of doing. I missed my chance a few days ago when I came upon a Cayman in for a new clutch. The tech told me the clutch was slipping which obviously is a sign the clutch needed attention. But the tech also mentioned the pedal was hard.

In your case, maybe you need to sneak a test press of a clutch pedal or two in a couple of other cars, cars similar to your car, just to see if you can develop a calibrated clutch foot as a sanity check of your indy's clutch foot?

Sincerely,

Macster.

oraph

so would 30k be a reasonable price for a car needing a clutch.. and assuming IMS bearing repl basically ~$3k additional maintenance.
so for $33k... i would have a nicely optioned c4s with decent miles, new clutch/ components, ims.

or can i do better?... i see same year/ millage c4s sold for less around US.. (25k-38k) but CA cars seem to fetch a premium... plus there is no guarantee those cars will not need a clutch

bella1

I can comment on price for a Turbo. Recently involved in sale of 2003 Turbo midnight blue 22K miles in Virginia. $52,000. As for the C4S, the IMS issue is a concern, lower HP, and 4WD. So if you can go Turbo, that would be worth considering. The engine is totally different than the NA 996. The Turbo is awesome and power hard to use on the street in the US.

RaceCarDriver

I think i would pass on the car. If you already need a clutch, and to fix ims for 3k will the car being needed brakes and tires soon too?

I would expand your search out of california and find a car than doesn't need anything.

Only buy a car with complete maintenance/service records from day one. I did that when i bought my C4S 6 years ago and its been the most reliable car I've ever owned

Surfer161

RE: Clutch feel. I just had my clutch replaced 45 k after the previous owner did because it was "stiff." Examining the clutch, it had only worn about 50%. But, i used to the opportunity to put in the LN bearing. And the old one appeared completely normal.

Now that the clutch was replaced, it still feels the same.

As to price, generally, you get what you pay for.

Surfer161

kromdom

In case you have not ye seen/read this, hope it helps: https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...immermann.html
I surfed autotrader, completed listings on ebay, KBB/NADA and input from guys here when I was shopping around recently. Best of luck.

P.S. This is also a good resource: http://www.excellence-mag.com/resour...ide/1041874889