Fonz0

Test drove a 2001 996 last night. 80k miles on it at independent dealer. Carfax is uneventful (not that they are comprehensive)- shows two previous owners- one in FLA and one in NC. Here are my findings from the drive and a question for the group:


• Clutch feels very stiff to me- hard to depress. Now, as this is the first Porsche 911 I have driven I have no frame of reference other than my 2007 Honda Fit S, but my reaction is that if the clutch is this stiff, driving it daily is not an option. I assume therefore that the clutch has to be replaced.
• Engine seemed strong, smooth, and responsive to my untrained ear, but I only got her up to around 55 mph.
• I did the 4000 RPM in first gear test and there was no slippage out of gear. I did not try for second as the seller was in the car next to me
• The car is missing the Lighter and one of the nozzles for the headlight washer (driver side right)
• There is a scratch on the passenger side door that is minor.
• Due to rain I was not able to test the sunroof mechanism, nor really look too deeply into the engine or trunk (trunk mainly to look for water damage and to verify all original equipment is there like jack, tire, manuals etc.). I also was not able to get the year code off the tires to see if they have to be replaced (I am betting they do)- oh yeah- wiper blades need replacing.
• Carfax does not show anything either way- no mention of Porsche servicing or a new engine
• Engine is later 2001: M96/04 66100796 but I have no evidence it has been replaced or rebuilt
• Gearbox is G9600 1020769



So given all of that, is it worth having a full PPI, or would you already advise walking away and finding another vehicle?

chsu74

price?

ivangene

good for you!!

you are reaching out for answers PRIOR to buying.
nothing you wrote sounds out of line for me. There "might" be an issue with the heavy clutch needing clutch replaced but "heavy" is relative - if you drove my 86' you might have a very sore leg after a few minutes in traffic....

my suggestion: tell us where you are located, and we or you can find a good local indipendant Porsche mechanic to do a PPI on the car for you - OR - test drive a couple other cars and get more info yourself THEN go to the shop for PPI after you have narrowed down your choices....someone here might even offer to come with you if we know where you are at....and post any "ads" on the car with pics and we can sometimes pick out good and bad right from that

in the end a PPI from a shop is a MUST and will cost you about $3-600 - I suggest you be there when they do it so you can learn what to look for and see what they are checking - its a long learning event and worth the effort


lastly - any issues that show up in the PPI or things you find...have the shop tell you how much it should cost to fix, some of the prices might surprise you (both ways) - use those numbers to help negotiate a better price - then get those things fixed...DO NOT allow the dealer to do the PPI, or offer to fix the things wrong UNLESS they work on 996's AND you have the car re-inspected at an independent shop after repairs are made -

final note - start reading!!!
there are lots of good info to find right here, dont be scared, be informed

Fonz0

@ivangene- In ATL. Have two PPI possibilities that come recommended. One is Hessessy Porsche and the other is Jerry at German Car Repair, Inc.

@chsu74- $21k

ivangene

again, no red flags from what I see/read

pretty easy way to tell if the motor was replaced....if its shiny, its a factory rebuild.new replacement - stock motors are coverer in kosmoline (brown waxy stuff)

chsu74

I guess the used car market is going up in price despite the economy. I would guess $18 to $19 for a 996 MK1 with 80K miles.

Clutch feel is stiffer than normal cars, GT3s even more so. My clutch feel does not feel any different after the clutch replacement. The clutch engages much earlier with a new clutch though; like at about 1/3 way from bottom. My worn clutch was grabbing at about 2/3 way up. I was smelling clutch the first few times I drove the car after replacement if that helps you.

ivangene

should warn, a proper driven car has a bit of a smell...its a good thing! - but it takes a little getting used to what is a good smell and what is ABY-Normal

Barn996

Did you choose a place to perform the PPI yet? GL, keep us posted.

Macster

A PPI I think is a bit premature. My advice would be to revisit the car and let the seller take you out in the car on a longish test ride.

Some prelim: Arrange to do this with the dead cold. Be sure the A/C is off. Be sure when the key is turned on the dash warning lights, including the CEL, come on, then as the engine is started all go out.

Let the cold engine idle while you give a good listen to the engine. The engine should crank right up, fire and settle into a fast idle. The idle may be a bit rough but you need to have some experience with these cars to know what's acceptable and what's not.

The engine idle speed should slow down and the engine get smoother as the engine gets warmer.

Listen for any ticking, knocking, any abnormal sounds. Again it helps to have listened to other engines -- even ones you know or suspect are 'sick' -- to develop a feel for what a good engine sounds like and what a bad engine sounds like.

After the engine has idled long enough the engine is near its operating temp then have the seller take you out on a 15 mile drive. Insist the route cover a variety of roads so you can experience the car, observe the car, in all situations.

Have the driver accelerate the car hard from near idle in 1st gear up to redline then shift into 2nd and keep the throttle pinned.

The engine should pull cleanly and smoothly all the way from idle to redline and upon the upshift regain its rpms and resume it strong adn smooth pull.

Back at the starting point if you still like the car take the car out as a driver and follow teh same route and drive the car the same way.

The test ride/drive gives the engine controller time to catch and flag any errors. It gets the engine/drivetrain hot and gives any fluid leaks time to reappear which should be found/spotted by the PPI (with the car in the air).

It gives you a chance to experience the car in a variety of driving scenarios.

Only after the above if the engine is still quiet, the CEL (and any other warning lights) remain dark, if the car feels solid, drives well, handles well, etc., then you treat the car to a full used car check out.

Only after the above, if you still like the car and believe you can buy the car for a reasonable price, a price agreeable to both you and of course the seller, then arrange to have the car PPI'd.

Sincerely,

Macster.

chsu74

Drive as many as possible. It will give you a better idea.

fpb111

The previous owner may have removed the clutch helper spring. Do a search.
Here is one of many threads
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...in-or-out.html

relinuca

IMHO, if the seller has no maintenance records, be very cautious about considering any sports car with 80K+ miles, especially a Porsche. Why? Because for only a few dollars more, you can find lower mileage for sale examples with a thorough maintenance history.

In re. the broken headlight washer...probably an easy fix. Owner's manual covers headlight removal, which is surprisingly easy, a required step to get access to the HL washer nozzle unit.

relinuca

Fonz0

Update.

After I insisted that I wanted a PPI, the seller suddenly offered up that the car has a "slight" head gasket leak and that the clutch would need to be replaced in 10k miles, according to the inspection they had done at trade in (independent dealer). Also offered to lower the price by 1k and promised I could get a clutch done by their guy for "much less than the $3500 Porsche charges."

I want the purchase of my first Porsche to feel great, so I walked away. I will continue to look and drive until I find the right car. Thanks to all here for great advice. @Macster- I really appreciate the how to do a test drive advice.

mpd425

Good move, if he admits to the clutch and head gasket leak what else might be wrong. Keep looking there are plenty of 996's out there. Gool luck.

Macster

Always a pleasure to be appreciated.

You did the right thing, walking away. The 1st rule of used car shopping is there is always another car.

Keep looking and Happy Shopping!

Sincerely,

Macster.