logray

Ok well that is closer to where the oil cooler is so that is still a possibility. But honestly without looking at the car this is like playing hangman without being able to look at the letters.

Take Macster's advice and have it looked at. If you ignore it you could be looking at total disaster.

If you are lucky it is just the oil cooler or AOS and after a thorough cleaning of the coolant system, some fresh coolant and water and you are on your way (still not an inexpensive process).

If you are not as lucky it is a cracked head, which is certainly repairable these days for less than the cost a replacement engine.

If you keep driving it and ignore it it will undoubtedly become a replacement engine, and possibly other components of the system.

jsoderbe

Yes, I am dropping it off at a friends performance shop early this week. I have only driven it 50 miles in this condition.

I thought I had mentioned that I registred it last week, and it passed the vehicle inspection with flying colors. The exhaust values were so good, actually zero pollution, so he had to try the other pipe too. He thought the machine was broken! Then he got the HC value up to 3, and it has to be under 100 to pass....

Macster, so you mean that the cracked head could cause an exterior oil and coolant leak as well? I did not think of that. Where should I look?

It seems like it is time for pictures....



Thanks,

Johan

Macster

If a crack accounts for both the coolant and oil leak the crack may be located on the surface of the head the surface the bolts to the block.

Thus the crack would not be visible until the head is removed and cleaned up and maybe even some crack highlighting chemical treatment used to well highlight that is make the crack stand out. Some cracks are quite tiny in that while the crack may run for a good fraction of an inch the crack's width is literally a hair width (or less) wide and barely visible to a naked eye and then only to one experienced in knowing where to look and how closely one needs to look.

In this case of the crack being located in this area of the head, the leak arises because the crack allows the coolant and oil to exert their pressure closer to the edge of the gasket and the gasket simply can't hold these fluids back.

There is also the possibilty the oil leak and coolant leak are unrelated. The oil leak is from a camshaft cover, spark plug tube, or some other 'external' source while the coolant leak is coming from a head gasket leak (possibly from a cracked head) or simply due to premature failure of the head gasket.

Or the gasket can be leaking due to assembly problems. The head was not torqued down properly or the head or block surface was scratched/nicked during assembly or the gasket compromised during assembly. The odds of this being the case though drop off greatly as the miles accumulate simply because if the head is not bolted to the engine properly it makes this known sooner rather than later.

Sort of related, but when I had my Boxster in for a VarioCam solenoid/actuator R&R the tech reported finding one of the bolts of one of the camshaft holddowns (I can't recall if the bolt head was a hex or Torx type) nearly stripped, rounded.

The tech managed to get the tool bit to bite well enough to remove the bolt (and thankfully the bolt didn't snap).

Now, I bought the car new and the engine has never been touched so the only time this could have happened was when the engine was being assembled at the factory.

Now admittedly the bolt with the nearly stripped head hadn't caused any problems in all the miles I've put on the engine but no fluid/gasket seal was involved. Had this head been the head of a head bolt... My engine might have developed a head gasket leak over time.

Sincerely,

Macster.

jsoderbe

Hi again,

I had a hunch the other day, efter re-reading the Carfax. Waiting for my friends two-pole lift to get availible, I decided to check the engine number today, and it turns out I have a replacement engine! The code is M96/04AT66165251. Looking at that number, and the threads about engines, I figure it is a replacement M96/04 manufactured in 2001.

However, looking at the carfax, the engine was removed for repair in april 2004, at 60 k miles! Could the engine have been manufactured in 2001, and stored until 2004? Or, could it have been replaced earlier, and removed once more for repair?

It had a major service in December 2002 as well, at 37000 miles. But on the other hand, I guess Porsche doesn't report the engine replacement to Carfax for a reason....

So, does this change the possibility that my engine has a cracked head? Were the heads improved in 2001, so it is less likely I have a cracked head?

Any thoghts would be very appreciated....


Thanks,

Johan

logray

Nope, cracked head can affect any 996, but mostly 1999-2001 cars & engines we hear about.

Heads were updated for the 2002 cars w/3.6L to include variocam plus system. If you have a 3.4L it most certainly does not have a variocam plus head.

Yes I believe their engines can sit around in a crate for years...

jsoderbe

Ok, too bad, I would have guessed they somehoe updated it. I can't believe only 55 k miles can ruin an engine....

Also, I think my water pump might have been changed, if that is the part located just above the sump plate towards the rear of the car? Might mean it is debris from the pump that have caused this.

Interestingly the coolant system have been flushed and refilled at least twice according to the Carfax....


Thanks,

Johan

logray

Yep, pretty much the heads get too hot and crack.

As for the H20 pump yes if a pump impeller breaks off and clogs a coolant passage that can be the primary cause for localized overheating in the engine and cracks in the aluminum leading to oil mixing with coolant.

Dharn55

Yes there is a "cheap" reason for oil in the coolant. It is because Porsche got cheap on some of the design, engineering and manufacturing on these engines.

Pac996

Cheap answer maybe air oil seperator screwy with a second problem of a leaking seal where you see oil coming down. Expensive somebody played rev before oil and engine at operating temp and or too much oil in the system if that effects these cars.

You should have an answer from the mechanics some time soo and we are all waiting for the answer.

jsoderbe

So, I finally took my time to get some pictures of the leak:

Just to clarify, all references to where the leaks are on the engine is based on the forward direction of the car, nothing else.

Oil leak, it is dark under there, sorry about that, but it leaks so there are drops on the right side of the engine, mostly towards the front:




Coolant leak, seems to drip from a few places, which to me indicate that the leak is fairly high up on the engine. Most is dripping on the forward right side, but also on the rear right side. You can actually see the dripping! It's nowhere near the coolant tank.



This is how a cloth looks after I have used it to dry the bottom of the coolant tank:



And this is a picture of the fluid inside the coolant tank. If you look closely you can see some oil drops in there. Reason the fluid is brown is because it is just water, since I only replace it with ordinary water. It would be too unfriendly to the environment (and my wallet) to use coolant when I have to refill a quart every 10 miles....



Finally a picture of the engine number:



Logray, I know I am hoping too much, but when looking around at the Porsche forums, it seems to me that 95 % of the cars with intermix is 1999-2000 models. The last 5 % is evenly spread between 2001-2004. Am I dead wrong (has happened before) or is there some updates to the M96/04 engine type?

I'm still waiting for my turn at my friends performance shop. I do hope I can get the car there this week, to try and fix the coolant/oil leak, and after that do a pressure test. It feels like the diagnosis is really hard when the coolant is pouring out of the engine.



Thanks,

Johan

KNS

Stop driving that car! Until you know for certain and can get it to the shop.

logray

Seriously don't drive the car until it is diagnosed.

Your car has a 3.4L engine, therefore it is especially prone to cracked heads. Yes not as common with later engines, usually those would be due to a coolant passage getting blocked or overheated, but it certainly is possible.

The fact is pretty much any car can suffer intermix for a variety of reasons.

It looks like you have a lot of oil leaks to address too.

If you keep driving it will only drive the dagger in deeper.

And deeper and deeper and deeper.

jsoderbe

No, I am not driving it, just around the block now to show you guys the leaks. But it is drivable, if I had coolant in oil I would not even start it, but as long as it not overheats I don't see a problem driving it.

My problem is to get a diagnosis, since I don't want to remove it just to find nothing, then put it back in and get intermix again.....

I'll get back when I have it on the lift.


Thanks,

Johan

Flat6 Innovations

The petroleum in the coolant is eating the rubber radiator and other hoses in the system alive. I have had several people do this and the car wstarted popping hoses like mad. The hooter the petroleum filled coolant gets the more it attacks the hoses and even the heater core. You don't want to know how much labor it costs to replace every hose in the system. Wait till the heater core ruptures and intermix fills the dash vents. Seen it all fellas, please don't drive the car to death.
If you have leaks starting then it sounds like your hoses are already starting to hate life; the leaks start where the hoses slip tightly over inlets and outlets.

jsoderbe

Hi,

I put the car on jack stands today, and it will stay there until either the intermix is fixed, or the engine is removed. I decided to go after the few things I could do inexpensively, doing the work myself. That is replacing the AOS and remove the oil cooler for pressure testing. That is two things I need done anyway, even if I end up buying another engine for the car. I would never put in an engine without a new AOS and tested oil cooler with new seals.

I started by draining the engine from coolant, or water to be more precise. There is nooooo anti-freeze in there.



It looks worse than it is, at least I think so. I left it there over night, so the oil could separate from the water. There is maybe 1 oz. of oil in there, rest is just water. There is no foaming or chemical reaction like the one Dharn55 mentioned in his intermix.

Inside of the coolant tank looked like this:



Is that what I can expect from the rest of the cooling system too?


Regards,

Johan