speed rII

So the problem could be the lifter carrier?
I did inspect my lifters when I changed the variocam pad's, and those were like new.

But I didn't check the lifter carrier...

Can the lifters be dismantled?

ivangene

I have learned how to dismantle the plus lifters but unless you are used to it they are pretty complicated and in the end not sure there is any benefit...its time consuming and the results may not be worth the effort and you might have to do them a "few times" to get them right...replacement is a pretty good option here (sorry I havent followed all this, but some)

Flat6 Innovations

The lifter carrier is part of the problem with noise in some instances, BUT until a worn lifter carrier is used with new or modified lifters the issues don't really become apparent.

I've only had two warranty repairs since we've been providing M96 engines, both were due to slightly worn lifter carriers that were not replaced that lead to failed lifters. Neither of those caused any other engine damage, but one of them did cost me a trip to Oregon and I had to replace the lifters and components in my client's garage.. Thank goodness he was a cool guy! Now the car is still running perfect.

You can get into real trouble reusing lifter carriers with new lifters, unless you know what to measure and where and good luck finding any wear specs, because they don't exist. Experience taught us whats allowable, but now we simply replace the lifter carrier no matter what.. Thats where part of the 20K price tag for my engine comes from.

The BMW lifters that I have seen are exactly the same, no changes at all. The wholesale cost of the two are also the same, within 50 cents each of being exact.

Dharn55

Never thought to measure the lifter carrier. Just looked up the part (996.104.105.53 and the list is $664.64@, discounted about $561.79@. So easily $1,200+ to replace the carriers when you replace the lifters. Now we start to better understand what Jake does on his rebuilds.

Just hoping that I don't develop problems with my new lifters. Have 10,000+ miles and have not noticed anything.

Flat6 Innovations

Development of two lifter carrier alternatives is underway:
1- Bushing the lifter carrier to restore it's exact factory dimension
2-Making a completely billet lifter carrier. Doing this allows more performance enhancements through the potential for more valve lift. As it stands, aggressive camshafts and high lift are not a possibility without carrier valley failure.

As always, we'd rather make an ultra high performance USA manufactured part as to spend the money with Porsche... Still on the quest to only be buying gasket sets from Porsche at some point...

speed rII

Hmm, I just came back from 300km highway trip, no more noise on idle...

Well I'm ok with this

speed rII

Update to noise issues.

What in the ..... could cause this one?

I park the car after driving it, let it sit about 3-4h. Then I start the car, and it makes metallic arrr for 1 sec.
This noise will not occur another time if I shut off the engine and start it again.
Nor it will happen in the morning.
Some how it seems to be related to oilpressure, but I have no idea why it won't make the sound when the engine is completly cold.

There is some resonance when engine is hot and revs are lifted to 2500 rpm

Could this be related to the lifters?
Catalysators?
Mufflers?

The timingchain tensioners are new
Variocam pads and chains are new
Timingchains and guides were good condition
Camshafts were like new
Startermotor is new

ivangene

have you thought about simply trying a differant oil ?

white99c2

Try Mobile 1 15w50

fpb111

Aux air pump?

dennis hiip

Something else to worry about???

Macster

Since IIRC you were in and at the engine and replaced a lot of stuff, I'm going to have to believe the problem may be internal.

But I'd not tear into the engine based on my opinion.

One thing that can help you is to try to determine if the noise is coming from inside the engine or outside of the engine.

Since you know how to reliably reproduce the symptom one 'trick' would be to drive the car as you have in the past, getting it as hot or warm as you have int then past, then remove the serpentine belt and let the car sit for the 3 to 4 hours.

Change nothing else.

Then after the time has expired, start the engine and see if the noise is still present.

If it isn't, then a very strong possibiilty is the noise is coming from an accessory drive or an idler roller.

If the noise is still present, it may still not be internal to the engine, but external, from perhaps from the starter motor and the overrunning clutch.

Or the starter gear is slow to engage from the flywheel.

Or the flywheel teeth or starter motor gear teeth or worn.

Another thing you can do is disconnect the secondary air pump from the wiring harness so it doesn't start up. Or IIRC remove a fuse so the thing can't run.

Then repeat the steps you know will generate the noise and see if the noise is still present.

You have to be sure the noise is not something external to the engine's internals.

If the noise can only be coming from the inside of the engine.. well cross that bridge when you come to it. I don't know many people who've been inside an engine but I can tell that almost every one at one point or another had to go back inside because of some problem. Experience is a harsh teacher.

Sincerely,

Macster.

philooo

Is there a DIY thread out there for the lifter removal/install ?

Not sure I want to jump on the work as it seems big but I could not get a straight answer, does this require engine removal ?

are there some videos showing before and after noise ? because the Porsche engine are kind of noisy and I wonder what is normal click noise and what is abnormal stuck lifter noise



Phil.

speed rII

This was on my mind when the idle noise was still there, The engine does not make "ticking" on idle. Will try that thou.

Ok, or castrol 10W50. Now running Casrtol 5W40 Syntec.
Oil pressure is 2bar when engine is hot

-98 model, no airpump

Well, I think that this is valvetrain issue. I dont think that this is a big deal, but sure is had to track down.

Macster, I have tryed it with out the aux belt, noise is still there.

My rear spoiler makes a real racket if i tap it with my hand, I think that it's the next thing to check...

JW911

Hey speed, I just saw your post above about your strange engine noise. I have a 2005 997, but the engine is very similar to the 996 and I had nearly identical symptoms to you. Metallic noise upon startup if the engine was warm but not driven for a while. And if the engine was idling for a minute or two (like at a red light or something) and I revved the motor to exactly 3,000 RPMs I would get a loud raspy metallic noise. I had the car into the dealer 4 or 5 times. They replaced 1 catalytic converter the first time, replaced the motor mounts with GT2 motor mounts another time. Sent me home with the car and the noise was immediately noticable to me. It was hard to diagnose because the conditions had to be just right for the noise to be evident.

It turns out it was the oil pump. I'm not sure exactly what the problem was with the pump. I always had plenty of pressure on the gauge. But the noise would only happen when the oil pressure was low and building pressure. So a cold start up or rev would not do anything because the pressure was so high. And a quick start or a rev after moderate rpms would not do anything because there was residual pressure. But if the oil was hot and the engine was idling for a couple of minutes, or if it was just started - the noise would be there.

Sorry for the long explanation. Long story short they replaced the oil pump about 8 months and 5,000 miles ago and the noise is finally gone for good.

At least I got a free set of GT2 motor mounts. My car is so much faster now! I hope this helps you find your elusive noise.

Good luck!