yiannosk2

I am a forum member for 2 years and visit it daily. I haven't post anything because I just use search and I am getting all the answers. After reading this topic from day 1 I want to express how I feel about this situation.

I respect every engineer about his innovations and great ideas to find solutions. What I really hate is when I feel that some people trying to take advantage of the anxiousness of the consumers. To charge a bearing 1700 dollars because the engine costs 10000 dollars is madness. I am sure if the cost of the engine was 3000 the same bearing was going to cost 700 dollars.

On the other hand LNEngineering’s offering, makes sense. I believe that you pay 250 for the parts and around 250 for the innovation.

At the end of the day this discussion is a win win situation. Many forum users have lost their sleep (including me ) because they had the chance to understand the problem. Jake and Charles will sell even more bearings and also a few will pay the extra money for insaro’s solution.

P.S. I have no connection win LN Engineering and actually I am from a small country far away called Cyprus in Mediterranean Sea. I sure they don’t even know it’s existence
Excuse my English but my primary language is Greek.

2K7TTMIA

yiannos, you expressed yourself quite well. Basically, to each his own. They can make their own decisions. Do your research and ask plenty of questions.

First post in 2 years, from Cyprus? And no pictures

uberalbo

This thread actually reads like "Get outta my sandbox!!!" ....but then...i dont even have a toy to play with yet.

Jake Raby

The vendor haters have arrived.. Now things are going to get spicy!

The tick, tick boom ad hasn't ran since the March issue of Excellence.. Before that it only ran for 3 issues.

I suppose the ad did its job as it certainly wasn't forgettable! Heck, I might go back to that ad, I had a lot of fun with it. Lots of people bought that ad in poster form, they loved it! I came up with that ad concept, you should have seen the one that I paid for, it was too insane even for me to run!

Fact is EVERY mechanical component will go "tick, tick boom" at some point.. Every engine in the world is killing its self with every revolution of the crankshaft.. Its kind of like a Human, the day you are born you start to die...

The majority of people appreciate what we do and what we share. There is always a group of vendor haters that will oppose any efforts and will go out of their way to create things to complain about. Thats just life. It keeps me inspired.

Brucechas

Semper Fi, Jake.

chsu74

Just because a designed like a tank IMS bearing is replaced, there will not be other issues in a M96 engine. There are ovaling of cylinder walls requiring new sleeves in high mile blocks, cracked 1-3 head causing intermix to be rewelded and worn chain guides. Where does it end?

I like the idea of a IMS bearing which which falls into a clutch/flywheel service intervals. Jake and Charles have designed the perfectly priced part for that. It is not so expensive and appears to be the perfect application for what the M96 engine needs.

Jake Raby

Semper Fi

ivangene

all in all... I agree its a good thread and I dont get the "get out of my sandbox" at all...

I see new idea with old ideas (funny how I think of LNE's as old ) asking how the new one works... thats it. AND as of yet, no answer as to how it works....the depth of the bearing in dual row -vs- single row, the dual mass flywheel clearance ect... be pretty mad if I ordered a part (kit) and pulled my tranny out THEN found out it didnt fit.... so I could wait around for a retro-fit to the retro-fit...in the meantime my car or my customers car has been sitting without a transmission for ?????days/months

Brucechas

Very good point, Ed.

juankimalo

I think that all the comments made here are very respectable

I understand Jake's and Charles' stance about the introduction of Insaro's kit.
When something like this happens, It's common wanted to know about it.
Besides, I understand all the rest from other guys here too.

I'm not Insaro, and as I'm not anyone with capabilities to explain more details that I knew, this is not my business.
I am the original poster, yes. I tried to share information with rennlist fellows. Just that. I'm not going to say that I didn't try to help Rober in explaining details, and sure that as I did by myself, I involved him in this 'game', because he is a soloporsche fellow, but not my friend, or someone I share any business with. I must say that I did the same thing in our spanish forum trying to explain, translate and share as much information about Flat6 Innovations/LN Engineering as I could. There are thousands of messages read in Soloporsche about it, with a positive discussion. Just go there and do a search. So, I'm not taking part for anybody as I said that I'm free to write, because I don't sell anything.

When I posted an ironic comment yesterday about the asking questions, perhaps someone couldn't interpreted it in a bad manner, or perhaps thought I was a bit aggresive, but I must say that there wasn't my intention. It's a missunderstanding.

Concerning to the answers you were waiting for, and trying to help you, I only know (since my ignorance) that the clearance with the dual mass flywheel was perfectly calculated, and the 3 screw external piece showed in the web is one of the different pieces made. The others that you're asking for, have their proper grooves and different design to fit correctly. Just what I can say.
No one engineer is going to launch anything that doesn't fit and doesn't work. Regarding to the single or double row bearing, I was told that there are different references too.

Neverthelees, if someone is very very interested in how it works, you could contact to Rober directly. Ask him for pictures where you could see the differences between the several references he made. For expample: If I were going to purchase a double row bearing kit for a 996 manual, I'll ask him for more information too.

greetings

Palmbeacher

It certainly did. And, no 'vendor hating' on my part. In fact I applaud your marketing as sheer genius. You've very cleverly never actually come out and made any specific claim as to the frequency of failures, which keeps you insulated from being called upon for proof. Yet by the same token, by inserting yourself into numerous internet fora you've managed to fan the flames of fear enough to create a huge market for your product. Aside from hearsay, only a tiny number (compared to total engines delivered) of actual owner reports of IMS bearing failures can be found on the 'net, and most of them are a year or more old. Thus far, I have not seen a single report of someone doing the retrofit and finding significant wear on the original bearing. Speaking with a couple of garages who have done the retrofits, I am told the same thing. Yet now, not one but two other vendors have joined the market you created.

Hate you? Are you kidding? I'm in awe of you. Not since my youth during the Cold War years of the early 60s have I seen such exquisite exploitation of human emotion for personal profit. All the slick campaigns I've been pitched that promise to attract patients into my office aren't remotely as effective as what you've been able to do. You're a true visionary when it comes to internet marketing. So no hate here, just unabashed praise and admiration.

RF5BPilot

I installed one of LN's bearings about 6 mos ago. I think most of us are intrigued with the idea of the double bearing. What is lacking is evidence that it not only fits, but stands up to real world use over time--and maybe, that its needed at all.

I waited for at least a year of people using LN's product before I chose it for my engine. I would want to wait at least that long and would want to hear significant positive testimony about the double-bearing version over time before I'd consider it as an option.

Although Joaquin (OP) says he has no personal interest in this, he has posted promotional materials about this on every major Porsche forum I've seen. So he is motivated....for whatever reason.

At this point, I'm motivated to ignore any more arguments for or against. I'm more interested in evidence.

The banter makes such a big point of what the bearing can do, but hidden in the background are all the problems it can cause if it doesn't work -- anywhere from having to try to send it back (and install a different one) if it doesn't fit -- to a ruined engine. I'm hard pressed to feel like I have any recourse with a startup in Europe if there are fundamental problems in a design that cost me an engine.

Let us know as you have real examples over time of installations that have been operating for many miles.

I guess I'm also intrigued to hear if any installations ever actually needed the second bearing (i.e., that the primary bearing failed and the engine was saved by the second). The second bearing may make sense in principle, but never actually be needed if the primary one is designed well. So, it may be extra cost for no practical value.

Evidence....evidence...evidence....

Jake Raby

I don't really know how to respond to all that.. Except its funny that I haven't sold a single IMS bearing kit since February of this year!!! We get the calls but direct them directly to LN, we don't have the time to support the sales!! All that marketing isn't even benefiting us monetarily, I gusss that says a lot about the loyalty I have to LN and our 13 year relationship of development together.

Lets don't get off topic or dramatic.. I still have some questions as to the insaro arrangement and I'd really like to gain a better comprehension of that from this topic.. Thats all I'd like at this point.

FWIW- Charles and I were here working after our class a cuple of nights ago. We worked well after 0200 in the morning on changes to the IMS bearing web pages and video. At 0230 my office phone rings, I think that its Charles who had just retired to his room for the evening so I aswe the phone "WHAT!"... Never dreaming it would be a business call at 0230, well it was. Seems that someone in California had just experienced an IMS bearing failure and spun in his own oil. He was calling us for support at that time of the morning for some crazy reason so I gave him the phone number to Callas Rennsport who is just down the road and he called Tony.... Amazing!

As i type this, my assistant, Dean is on the phone with a customer who had an IMS bearing failure over the weekend and Dean is filling out the failure log on the occurrence right now. Quite some time ago we started logging all this information to make it a bit easier to substantiate when the time comes, or when we are questioned. In some cases those with failures agree to be voice recorded to share the experience. Yes, these failures are occurring and even some who are Rennlist members have called us, mentioned the forums but state they have not posted their failure there, primarily because they just don't want to deal with the crap.
Here there are more lurkers than posters, just because you haven't read about it don't believe that it hasn't occurred. This is why I began the log books and bearing serialization for all our retrofits. I cover my ***!

juankimalo

Yes. I postes it in Renntech, 6 speed and Here.
I'm proud of having soulfly (Roberto) as an active user in Soloporsche, and he shared with us the develop of this kit 'made in Spain'
You can read it in DIY #122 in Soloporsche, so I told them that I were going to show it. That's all.
Nevertheless you can ask all Soloporsche users how I am, and how I use to proceed.

BruceP

I don't see any harm in people continuing to innovate at their own risk and expense, nor in people self-promoting. I'd say those two things are pretty central to our way of life, actually.

That said, the proof will always be in the pudding. My LN retrofit went in in June of 09, and my engine gets the worst use you can imagine. That's not much of a record of performance, but it's still a record. I'll be keen to see how the new piece does in service. Until then, it's not much better than bench racing to debate it.