CWhaley

The actual rate of failure on the IMS is statistically low.... As many of you have stated it is a "Feel Good" repair that lowers your stress levels. All too many shops are charging a premium on drivers fears.

My father is an old school racer/mechanic and always believed that "If it's not broken then don't fix it". While this is not always the best path (we have had many debates over the years about it) I must agree with him on the IMS issues.
NOW, if you are already in there working on a clutch... (this is where father/son differ) THEN do both RMS/IMS... As this is a "Get it while you are there".

Just the thoughts of another voice

wyovino

The problem is that we don't know the actual failure rate on the IMS, nor the cause, just anecdotal evidence. If we had better data, the choice would be easier to make. If an IMS upgrade costs 2k and the cost of an engine replacement is 25k, the break even point would be at a failure rate of 8%. I'm guessing that the failure rate is significantly less than that, but without accurate data all we can do is speculate.

For me, spending 2 or 3 grand on the car is not a big deal. Spending 25 grand would be another story.

997_rich

Can anyone comment on whether an IMS or RMS failure always equals a blown engine? If you see a pool of oil or if the oil light comes on and you stop the engine immediately, you'll probably be all right. Making sense?

Dharn55

Big difference between an RMS and an IMS problem. The RMS (rear main seal) can leak and not really cause any damage. There can be IMS (intermediate shaft) flange leaks, that don't really cause damage. But most of the discussion of IMS problems is not about the flange leaking, but about the bearing going bad which can badly damage or destroy the engine. Don't confuse the two.

arenared

Also check the price. The $2K to $3K being thrown around probably includes the clutch/flywheel. Mine was $1500 for the IMS bearing and RMS alone. As mentioned, I combined things to include a new clutch/flywheel and CV boots.

Janusz

Bad idea; replacing any part of an engine with non-Porsche approved aftermarket part will give the warranty company a chance to legitimately deny a claim.
Besides, you already have a warranty so why go to an expense of replacing the part you do not even know you need? After all they took over the risk of you engine failure, didn't they?

Your last sentence makes a LOT OF SENSE, even more if you DO have a warranty of course.

Four years from now when my current warranty expires and my 2002 car will not be eligible for a service contract extension i will sadly sell it and buy a newer one.

wyovino

For my 2000 C2 Tip $3k includes IMS, RMS, X51 Oil pan, and low temp thermostat. The IMS alone would have been ~$2k. You saved on some of the labor cost because it was common to several of the replacements.

My figures include sales tax (8.5%)

Jake Raby

No one ever will. Between the actual sales numbers being estimated to the fact that no one knows how many failed under warranty and how many failed and were misdiagnosed its impossible to come up with any sort of number.

soverystout

I think you are on the right path with some modifications.
My RMS seal was replaced along with the clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing just 5k miles ago!

Nothing it leaking and the tech at the dealer said that the IMS was dry.
I have a CPO warranty for the next 6 months so I am not going to do anything until then.

What I would do in your case (i intend to do this as well), during your next oil change, do as the LN folks say in the Excellence articles and cut the ends off the filter and check for metal. ANd then spend $25 and have the oil analyzed by a place like blackstone labs.

If you don't change your own oil, ask your indie/dealer to save the filter and a small sample of oil for you.

Those 2 items will give you further piece of mind that all is well with your engine.

My 996 passed 39,000 miles on the way into work today.

Uh oh...... I'm in the zone where the RMS goblins comes out, jack up my car, remove the trans and shoot evil curses at my IMS bearing.

And it's not even halloween yet.

greenbe

I was not clear in mypost, we are saying the same thing. I was trying to say do _not_ replace the IMS until near the end of your warranty, if you can line it up with a clutch that would be ideal if fate allows... for the same reasons you mention the warranty co might disallow your claim.

BruceP

I just find this such an odd controversy. Updating components in a vehicle you plan to keep for a long time is a perfectly valid, commonplace practice. From farm tractors to fighter jets, it's part of owning a machine you care about, however you might feel about the service life of one or another of them. Do, don't, it's a personal choice. But doing it isn't stupid.

It's ironic that people are promoting extended warranties as the fix. Here's a product which by design benefits a tiny minority of customers and is a waste of money for the vast majority. That's exactly what you're accusing the IMS bearing upgrade of being, except the insurance company is specifically counting on the waste of money to make a buck.

I'd like to see a show of hands of Porsche owners who absolutely never, ever spend discretionary money on parts that are even the tiniest bit overengineered.

bigchunk

Hi folks, this is my first post although i have been using this site and rentech religously for the past 8 months!
Decided it was time to get my dream car at the start of the year and by Feb i had pulled off enough bank jobs to make it a reality (only kidding about the bank jobs!!).
Found my perfect car, a 2002 year C4 3.6 facelift model with 56000 miles and full porsche service history and plenty of invoices to prove all was good.
Booked it into porsche for an anual inspection (only covered 5000 miles since its major service a year before) and all that was noted was leaking RMS and front brake discs corroded on the inside.
I am in the process of looking for someone in the UK to do the seal and also the IMS bearing and the difference of opinion (and price) of the specalists is amazing!
First one will do RMS and IMS LN engineering upgrade for 1450 pounds plus vat (17.5%), second one will do the same job for 1200 pounds plus VAT,
third one will do the same job but uses the same bearing as the origionlal spec but removes the seals and upgrades the standard cap seal and charges 850 plus VAT and the last one is offering to do the RMS and check on the IMS bearing and replace the cap seal for 400 including VAT, the latter one stating that he reccomends not changing the bearing unless it is absoulutely neccecary as to remove the old one puts stress on the engine casing etc etc.
I am totally lost with what option to go for as between the first option and the last there is 1000 pounds of a difference!
I am also waiting back on the last person to tell me what will happen if he finds out that when he checks the bearing it dooes in fact require replacement.

frisbee91

Okay, call me crazy. <controversy-proof suit=ON>
Just had my clutch done at my local indy with 53K miles on my '99 C2. The AOS was leaking, so I had that replaced too.
I chose NOT to do the IMS or RMS. RMS wasn't leaking.

I SERIOUSLY debated doing the IMS bearing, but given the unknown and probably low failure rate, the expense, and the unknown time I may own the car, I opted not to do it. The simple philosophy of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" prevailed. <knocks wood>

I think replacing the bearing is valid choice as an upgrade to reliability, but I decided I could live with the low risk. Not loosing sleep over it. <knocks wood repeatedly>

Sneaky Pete

Ditto....

Geowar

04 c2, 33,000 miles two weeks into ownership noticed couple oil drops on garage floor. Well aware of IMS/RMS issues. LN engineering's website listed an "authorized shop" close to home. Made appointment. RMS leaking like a "siv". IMS was fine. RMS replaced. LN E IMS retrofit kit installed. Clutch, flywheel had plenty of miles left. Total cost with oil/filter, cabin filter, air filter. $1,800. Peace of mind, priceless.