DaveSpeed

I have to put in my $.02.

I can't tell you how much sleep I've lost over IMS issue and wanting to have the upgrade done to the car. So I took the car yesterday to Phil's auto to let him look at the car. Pat (tech) response to me he would do the upgrade but not untill I needed a repair worth taking the car apart for. (i.e. RMS or cluth replacement)

It is an expensvie repair for a low probability problem. He also did say that milage was a factor I have less than 40K on the car. His advice was to drive the car more deal with the issue in a year or two.

Estimated cost 2-2.5K for IMS, 3-4.5K cluth & flywheel (if needed).

Chris996

Here is a pic of my IMS that I pulled and replaced with LN-IMS.
It looked good but shows a little oil on the seal. I had ~ 24k miles when replaced. Best upgrade I ever did. I wouldn't wait for this upgrade. What is the X51 oil pan benefit besides more oil?

iPhone4 Picture:

Janusz

If peace of mind is so important for you that you are willing to throw $3,000 for something you do not even know is needed why wouldn't you spend even less then $3,000 and purchase 4 year powertrain warranty which would cover ALL engine and transmission issues up to and including brand new units?

Seems like much better deal, dont you think? It gives you a real peace of mind in comparison.

Sneaky Pete

How bout dem Packers! Favre Sucks!

wyovino

It's more like $3,000 for 1 or 2 years and I've not found anyone who will cover my MY2000 996 yet. I tried the main three so far. If you go that route, you'll be right back in the same position you were in a year or two earlier, and will have to shell out another 3 grand for the upgrade or find another warranty (rinse, repeat).

A warranty is nice to have too. I have insurance on my home, but I still replaced the furnace when I lost faith in its safety.

911mike99

+1 cant stand that ball baby! There is more to football than Farve!!!!

Shark Attack

sure

Dharn55

Now I am not a mechanic and I don't have to make my living that way but I just don't get these prices for a LN Bearing upgrade. I know that I can drop the engine and trans in my driveway in about 4 hours, another 4 to put it back in. In looking at the bill from my indy for a clutch and RMS he did for me in 08 (EasyCare paid for the labor for the RMS) he charged 7 hrs. for the R&R of the trans and Flywheel and the RMS replacement. At his new rate of $119 that is now $833, add another hour for the IMS ( which is more than it is supposed to take) and this is $952 in labor. The dual row bearing is $595, tool is $70, add another $100 for the flywheel bolts and fluids and we are about $1,800. So why so many of the prices I am seeing here so much more? And one has the clutch adding $1,500 to $2,000 for a clutch on top of this. If the trans is out and the flywheel is off, it should be the cost of the clutch parts only.

I just don't get it.

I know that I will probably be doing the upgrade myself in the near future. I only regret that I did not do it last year when I had the engine out to fix the intermix I had. Unfortunately a the time the tool was not perfected and I was not sure that the fix I was doing would be successful and did not want to spend an extra $700 if it did not work.

chsu74

Doug,

I am with you. People are overcharging for this work because of the engine replacement alternative. There are a lot of shops taking advantage of this.

ivangene

OK in Seattle area, shop rate is $140 so your 7 hours plus an hour for the IMS (8 hours) is $1120

parts $595/70/100 = $765

ALL SHOPS quote the job with a replacement flywheel and full clutch kit (lets say $950 and $450) = $1400

$3285 - tax in my area is 10% - $328

$3613

AND my indy includes a slave cylinder and hose in the bid (~$250 in parts +$25 tax) they claim they see a lot of bad hoses and/or leaking/bad slaves...

$3888

you are then "prepped" - the great news is that NOT all cars need a clutch or flywheel or slave or hose.... that means when you arrive to pay.... you smile because it was less than you had planned.

From a liability side, the shop does not want you to get an IMS upgrade and 3 months later come back for a clutch (ect) so there are no car leaving that are not in "very good" condition. - you can imagine that your customers will not be happy coming back from this job... and being told you have to take it apart again.

I am not advocating or condoning (spelling) this, I am just explaining the possition of any reputable shop -

AGREE????

greenbe

If your car is young enough to qualify for a warranty from a reasonably reputable company, I think it is something to consider. Despite my bad luck in this department, other things could go wrong. My research so far indicates the IMS failures are clustered in the lower mileages. But it is incredibly hard to find reliable information (with enough data points). I was told the stress on the cam-chain system is highest at idle, which might play into the lightly driven / daily driver theory. I was also told by several rebuilders that 80% of blown motors are due to some version of IMS as the root cause. But this is difficult to verify.

My current theory runs a little counter - buy a warranty and replace the IMS when you do your clutch but not earlier. That way you will have a newer IMS when you get to the point you can't get a warranty.

In the end you can't go replacing every component in the car. Just enjoy driving it and put it out your mind.

Dharn55

Ed -

Not that I am disagreeing with you but there are a lot of variables in this. The highest rate for a dealer around here that I know of is $159/hr. The indy that I use is $119 (I have referred many other owners to them and just yesterday I got a note of thanks from a new owner for the referral, very satisfied). And we all know that they make profit on the list price of the clutch etc. that you list (and they have to make a profit to stray in business, and deserve one). But when you add all the other work for things that might happen is starts to be a slippery slope. I know the challenges that shops face with the "next part down the line." Replace the water pump and the idler pulley goes bad, etc. etc. But where does this stop? Kind of a doomsday scenario with the clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder. What about the chains, tensioners, pads, etc. etc. What the heck, lets just put in the new engine and get it done with (although this would not have the LN bearing unless ii is a Flat6 engine). What I was focusing on was the cost of the bearing upgrade. If one wants to address other wear and tear items, all power to them, but where does the list end.

Another way to look at it is if you are doing the clutch, etc. for a cost of $3,000+ then the bearing is only $665, not a bad deal in my opinion. On this basis anyone who does not do it when the clutch is done is being penny wise and pound foolish.

Just another perspective.

arenared

I just had the IMS/RMS done on my 986, but I believe the price was the same for the 996. Mine was done at an independent shop (Flintworks) for $1500. A car with a Tip is more, however. It only made sense for me to do this in combination with a clutch/flywheel and some other stuff (replace CV boots). I bought an aftermarket clutch/flywheel (aluminum LWFW) which were replaced with no extra labor charge. The IMS bearing that came out appeared to be fine, but I typically change my oil every 5K or less and use oils "better" than Mobil 1.

What I have observed on the various forums is that the IMS bearing failure is by far the most common failure of the M96 engine, albeit not super common. As a result, there is a lot of fear about being one of the unlucky few. My indy mechanic used to work at several Porsche dealerships and also said the IMS is by far the most common failure. The next being very early M96 engines with D-chunked cylinders or slipped sleeves.

For me, the bottom line on the IMS bearing R/R was that it was probably a better return than an aftermarket warranty, especially if you are combining it with some other service. I do feel the hysteria around this failure is unwarranted. Of the 6 IMS bearing replacements that I know of (statistically unbiased) 1st or 2nd hand (not online), all have had IMS bearings that appeared to be good. On the other hand, I do know one online "friend" that had his engine go due to IMS.

ryangambrill

I have been thinking about the IMS upgrade.

My issue is that the RMS was replaced a long time ago by the previous owner (LiveNupe) and has never leaked out. Also the clutch only has 15k-20k miles on it. Being that those items are all good, I just cannot see spending $2k- $3k to upgrade the IMS.

Am I on the right path, or would you guys do something else?

Barn996

I believe you are on the right path.