i know this is a no-no
08-14-2010, 09:58 PM
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i know this is a no-no
guys i know this is definitely a no-no but i've got to know why other than completly disgracing what porsche stands for, but there's a 1980 911 targa with a LS1 VETTE motor in it for sale for $25,000 only has 27,000 miles on it, don't have any pictures, but i know to porsche enthusiasts this is a disgrace, but it wouldn't cost $1,500 for a tune, if motor blows up it wouldn't cost $15,000 - $20,000 to replace, the original motor has no power, etc... i know this is a stupid question but why is this so bad & i don't want you to say well if you don't know i'm not gonna tell you! i don't care about the price or miles, i just want to know WHY this is just not accepted in the porsche community.
08-14-2010, 10:44 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Well...we're talking air cooled 911 here right, not liquid cooled 996. If you've never owned or really lived with an air cooled 911 then it will be harder for you to understand, but I'll try.
The Porsche 911 is an historic car (in the very real sense of the word) because it is an engineering triumph. It is a motoring icon because the whole is more than the sum of it's parts. It all works together like magic.
A HUGE part of that magic is the air cooled flat six motor. That motor that has won more races than any man can count. It may not be the most powerful motor (although the twelve cylinder version made 1000+ horsepower back in the 1970's before anyone thought it was possible) but the engine is a jewel.
It's air cooled, it's dry sump, it's horizontally opposed....it's a true thoroughbred engine and it is at least 75% of the reason that Porsches are as important to the motoring world as they are today. Porsches reputation not just on the street, but on the track was earned with that engine.
The style of the 911 is neat and all, pretty maybe, but that's not why they are great. It's all about the motor.
So, replace the heart of a 911 with a transplant and you've pretty much lost the reason for owning a Porsche. You might as well brive a Corvette.
Sure you can pose away with your V8 911, no one will know the difference just by looking at it. You will also almost certainly win all the stoplight drag races if you ever find another 911 dumb enough to drag race in the first place. That is missing the point of a 911 entirely.
Anyway - it really does come down to the "if you have to ask then you won't understand" thing. I know it's a chicken **** answer - sorry.
Finally - a tune up shouldn't cost you $1500. If that's what you are paying then you're doing it wrong. You're not taking it in to the dealeship are you?!?
The Porsche 911 is an historic car (in the very real sense of the word) because it is an engineering triumph. It is a motoring icon because the whole is more than the sum of it's parts. It all works together like magic.
A HUGE part of that magic is the air cooled flat six motor. That motor that has won more races than any man can count. It may not be the most powerful motor (although the twelve cylinder version made 1000+ horsepower back in the 1970's before anyone thought it was possible) but the engine is a jewel.
It's air cooled, it's dry sump, it's horizontally opposed....it's a true thoroughbred engine and it is at least 75% of the reason that Porsches are as important to the motoring world as they are today. Porsches reputation not just on the street, but on the track was earned with that engine.
The style of the 911 is neat and all, pretty maybe, but that's not why they are great. It's all about the motor.
So, replace the heart of a 911 with a transplant and you've pretty much lost the reason for owning a Porsche. You might as well brive a Corvette.
Sure you can pose away with your V8 911, no one will know the difference just by looking at it. You will also almost certainly win all the stoplight drag races if you ever find another 911 dumb enough to drag race in the first place. That is missing the point of a 911 entirely.
Anyway - it really does come down to the "if you have to ask then you won't understand" thing. I know it's a chicken **** answer - sorry.
Finally - a tune up shouldn't cost you $1500. If that's what you are paying then you're doing it wrong. You're not taking it in to the dealeship are you?!?
08-14-2010, 11:00 PM
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you don't know the half of it
Well...we're talking air cooled 911 here right, not liquid cooled 996. If you've never owned or really lived with an air cooled 911 then it will be harder for you to understand, but I'll try.
The Porsche 911 is an historic car (in the very real sense of the word) because it is an engineering triumph. It is a motoring icon because the whole is more than the sum of it's parts. It all works together like magic.
A HUGE part of that magic is the air cooled flat six motor. That motor that has won more races than any man can count. It may not be the most powerful motor (although the twelve cylinder version made 1000+ horsepower back in the 1970's before anyone thought it was possible) but the engine is a jewel.
It's air cooled, it's dry sump, it's horizontally opposed....it's a true thoroughbred engine and it is at least 75% of the reason that Porsches are as important to the motoring world as they are today. Porsches reputation not just on the street, but on the track was earned with that engine.
The style of the 911 is neat and all, pretty maybe, but that's not why they are great. It's all about the motor.
So, replace the heart of a 911 with a transplant and you've pretty much lost the reason for owning a Porsche. You might as well brive a Corvette.
Sure you can pose away with your V8 911, no one will know the difference just by looking at it. You will also almost certainly win all the stoplight drag races if you ever find another 911 dumb enough to drag race in the first place. That is missing the point of a 911 entirely.
Anyway - it really does come down to the "if you have to ask then you won't understand" thing. I know it's a chicken **** answer - sorry.
Finally - a tune up shouldn't cost you $1500. If that's what you are paying then you're doing it wrong. You're not taking it in to the dealeship are you?!?
The Porsche 911 is an historic car (in the very real sense of the word) because it is an engineering triumph. It is a motoring icon because the whole is more than the sum of it's parts. It all works together like magic.
A HUGE part of that magic is the air cooled flat six motor. That motor that has won more races than any man can count. It may not be the most powerful motor (although the twelve cylinder version made 1000+ horsepower back in the 1970's before anyone thought it was possible) but the engine is a jewel.
It's air cooled, it's dry sump, it's horizontally opposed....it's a true thoroughbred engine and it is at least 75% of the reason that Porsches are as important to the motoring world as they are today. Porsches reputation not just on the street, but on the track was earned with that engine.
The style of the 911 is neat and all, pretty maybe, but that's not why they are great. It's all about the motor.
So, replace the heart of a 911 with a transplant and you've pretty much lost the reason for owning a Porsche. You might as well brive a Corvette.
Sure you can pose away with your V8 911, no one will know the difference just by looking at it. You will also almost certainly win all the stoplight drag races if you ever find another 911 dumb enough to drag race in the first place. That is missing the point of a 911 entirely.
Anyway - it really does come down to the "if you have to ask then you won't understand" thing. I know it's a chicken **** answer - sorry.
Finally - a tune up shouldn't cost you $1500. If that's what you are paying then you're doing it wrong. You're not taking it in to the dealeship are you?!?
08-14-2010, 11:01 PM
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I think jasper's answer about covers it. For a true enthusiast the magic of the 911 is that air cooled motor. Lots of history and racing pedigree in it. To take that out and put in ANY other motor would ruin the point of the car. Just my 2 cents....
08-14-2010, 11:17 PM
#7
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guys i know this is definitely a no-no but i've got to know why other than completly disgracing what porsche stands for, but there's a 1980 911 targa with a LS1 VETTE motor in it for sale for $25,000 only has 27,000 miles on it, don't have any pictures, but i know to porsche enthusiasts this is a disgrace, but it wouldn't cost $1,500 for a tune, if motor blows up it wouldn't cost $15,000 - $20,000 to replace, the original motor has no power, etc... i know this is a stupid question but why is this so bad & i don't want you to say well if you don't know i'm not gonna tell you! i don't care about the price or miles, i just want to know WHY this is just not accepted in the porsche community.
I don't know how the car behaves, handles with that engine, and I don't know the quality of the engine install -- saw a Pontiac Solstice with a 6.0l V8 in it with the engine installed by Mallett Cars back east (I spotted this Solstice at Santa Row in San Jose months ago) and the installation was factory, better than factory, but if the installation is as professional as the Solstice then the car I think would be pretty impressive. Doesn't mean I would want one, but impressive nonetheless.
Sincerely,
Macster.
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08-14-2010, 11:20 PM
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grant911, i sent you a pm, first time i've done that, let me know if you didn't get it.
08-14-2010, 11:38 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Ah - just read your other post. 
I see why you're a bit put off.
I don't think the answer is to buy a franken-car though. Everything from the motor mounts to the ignition to the cooling system would be custome built so fabrication shop prices if you're not doing your own service.
Personally - I do all my own work and for those jobs I can't do myself...I have good relationships with shops, friends with more resources, or *gulp* paid professionals.
I simply don't trust other people to work on my car, never mind the cost - I can't be sure the job is done right unless I see it with my own eyes.
Here's a quick story - good buddy and I were out just yesterday for a tear in the mountains. He's in an '89 Carrera in fact. 3.2 litre air cooled car. 230 hp. He could not keep up on the open stretches but I could not shake him in the twisties.
Anyway - towards the end of the run he develops a brutal misfire with a ppfft sound. We pull over and scratch our heads. He says he had just taken the car in to an indy for plugs, wires, cap etc. The guy worked cheap and fast apparently. I know this indy though and I'm pretty sure he's a crack head, so I suggest that one of the spark plugs may not be torqued down and has come loose.
Sure enough...#4 and the associated wire were all the way out and rattling around on the engine tin. We borrowed a socket and ratchet from a passing motorbiker and bob's you uncle we're back on the road, no harm no foul.
So lesson 1 - do not trust even the professionals to do the job right. They'll take screw you *and* take your money.
Lesson 2 - air cooled 911 engines are easy to live with. Simple and effective machines. I personally *will* have another air cooled 911 one day. They are great cars.
I see why you're a bit put off. I don't think the answer is to buy a franken-car though. Everything from the motor mounts to the ignition to the cooling system would be custome built so fabrication shop prices if you're not doing your own service.
Personally - I do all my own work and for those jobs I can't do myself...I have good relationships with shops, friends with more resources, or *gulp* paid professionals.
I simply don't trust other people to work on my car, never mind the cost - I can't be sure the job is done right unless I see it with my own eyes.
Here's a quick story - good buddy and I were out just yesterday for a tear in the mountains. He's in an '89 Carrera in fact. 3.2 litre air cooled car. 230 hp. He could not keep up on the open stretches but I could not shake him in the twisties.
Anyway - towards the end of the run he develops a brutal misfire with a ppfft sound. We pull over and scratch our heads. He says he had just taken the car in to an indy for plugs, wires, cap etc. The guy worked cheap and fast apparently. I know this indy though and I'm pretty sure he's a crack head, so I suggest that one of the spark plugs may not be torqued down and has come loose.
Sure enough...#4 and the associated wire were all the way out and rattling around on the engine tin. We borrowed a socket and ratchet from a passing motorbiker and bob's you uncle we're back on the road, no harm no foul.
So lesson 1 - do not trust even the professionals to do the job right. They'll take screw you *and* take your money.
Lesson 2 - air cooled 911 engines are easy to live with. Simple and effective machines. I personally *will* have another air cooled 911 one day. They are great cars.
08-14-2010, 11:39 PM
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Who says it is not accepted? At least someone accepted it enough to have it done. Different strokes for different folks.
I don't know how the car behaves, handles with that engine, and I don't know the quality of the engine install -- saw a Pontiac Solstice with a 6.0l V8 in it with the engine installed by Mallett Cars back east (I spotted this Solstice at Santa Row in San Jose months ago) and the installation was factory, better than factory, but if the installation is as professional as the Solstice then the car I think would be pretty impressive. Doesn't mean I would want one, but impressive nonetheless.
Sincerely,
Macster.
I don't know how the car behaves, handles with that engine, and I don't know the quality of the engine install -- saw a Pontiac Solstice with a 6.0l V8 in it with the engine installed by Mallett Cars back east (I spotted this Solstice at Santa Row in San Jose months ago) and the installation was factory, better than factory, but if the installation is as professional as the Solstice then the car I think would be pretty impressive. Doesn't mean I would want one, but impressive nonetheless.
Sincerely,
Macster.
08-15-2010, 12:43 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
I can't help but think that if you don't want a Corvette, then you also won't want a b@stard 911 with a chevy motor cobbled into the back.
There's a reason you don't see many of these conversions around. Besides the number one point, that the 911 motor is plenty good, the V8 Porsches are sure to run hot and make the cars behave very un-911 like.
One of the attractive things about the 911 is that the flat six has a very low centre of gravity. The V8 changes that balance. I can't say the V8 is heavier, it may or may not be, but where it carries the weight is the point.
It is believed that the high performance rear engine layout of the 911 works only because a group of pig headed and very determined German engineers refused to give in to the laws of physics. They overcame what some would say is a serious design flaw, but only just. Mess with the balance and it won't work, at least not as well as intended. I personally have taken all of my Porsches right to the limit - did this just yesterday in fact - and yeah - this is not something that can be achieved with a U-build chassis.
Finally - as far as running like a scalded cat...lot's of cars do that but not very many also handle like precision instruments. Take the Corvette - plenty fast, and they even handle well, but you won't catch me wanting one (never actually driven one so I'm being careful here). You said yourself that you don't want another Corvette...ask yourself why not and you may have your answer.
There's a reason you don't see many of these conversions around. Besides the number one point, that the 911 motor is plenty good, the V8 Porsches are sure to run hot and make the cars behave very un-911 like.
One of the attractive things about the 911 is that the flat six has a very low centre of gravity. The V8 changes that balance. I can't say the V8 is heavier, it may or may not be, but where it carries the weight is the point.
It is believed that the high performance rear engine layout of the 911 works only because a group of pig headed and very determined German engineers refused to give in to the laws of physics. They overcame what some would say is a serious design flaw, but only just. Mess with the balance and it won't work, at least not as well as intended. I personally have taken all of my Porsches right to the limit - did this just yesterday in fact - and yeah - this is not something that can be achieved with a U-build chassis.
Finally - as far as running like a scalded cat...lot's of cars do that but not very many also handle like precision instruments. Take the Corvette - plenty fast, and they even handle well, but you won't catch me wanting one (never actually driven one so I'm being careful here). You said yourself that you don't want another Corvette...ask yourself why not and you may have your answer.
08-15-2010, 01:27 AM
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guys i know this is definitely a no-no but i've got to know why other than completly disgracing what porsche stands for, but there's a 1980 911 targa with a LS1 VETTE motor in it for sale for $25,000 only has 27,000 miles on it, don't have any pictures, but i know to porsche enthusiasts this is a disgrace, but it wouldn't cost $1,500 for a tune, if motor blows up it wouldn't cost $15,000 - $20,000 to replace, the original motor has no power, etc... i know this is a stupid question but why is this so bad & i don't want you to say well if you don't know i'm not gonna tell you! i don't care about the price or miles, i just want to know WHY this is just not accepted in the porsche community.
I think your house and car are protected in the States by the Bill of Rights and Provisions Relating to the Right of Privacy.. : )
08-15-2010, 02:14 AM
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strictly cosmetic
I can't help but think that if you don't want a Corvette, then you also won't want a b@stard 911 with a chevy motor cobbled into the back.
There's a reason you don't see many of these conversions around. Besides the number one point, that the 911 motor is plenty good, the V8 Porsches are sure to run hot and make the cars behave very un-911 like.
One of the attractive things about the 911 is that the flat six has a very low centre of gravity. The V8 changes that balance. I can't say the V8 is heavier, it may or may not be, but where it carries the weight is the point.
It is believed that the high performance rear engine layout of the 911 works only because a group of pig headed and very determined German engineers refused to give in to the laws of physics. They overcame what some would say is a serious design flaw, but only just. Mess with the balance and it won't work, at least not as well as intended. I personally have taken all of my Porsches right to the limit - did this just yesterday in fact - and yeah - this is not something that can be achieved with a U-build chassis.
Finally - as far as running like a scalded cat...lot's of cars do that but not very many also handle like precision instruments. Take the Corvette - plenty fast, and they even handle well, but you won't catch me wanting one (never actually driven one so I'm being careful here). You said yourself that you don't want another Corvette...ask yourself why not and you may have your answer.
There's a reason you don't see many of these conversions around. Besides the number one point, that the 911 motor is plenty good, the V8 Porsches are sure to run hot and make the cars behave very un-911 like.
One of the attractive things about the 911 is that the flat six has a very low centre of gravity. The V8 changes that balance. I can't say the V8 is heavier, it may or may not be, but where it carries the weight is the point.
It is believed that the high performance rear engine layout of the 911 works only because a group of pig headed and very determined German engineers refused to give in to the laws of physics. They overcame what some would say is a serious design flaw, but only just. Mess with the balance and it won't work, at least not as well as intended. I personally have taken all of my Porsches right to the limit - did this just yesterday in fact - and yeah - this is not something that can be achieved with a U-build chassis.
Finally - as far as running like a scalded cat...lot's of cars do that but not very many also handle like precision instruments. Take the Corvette - plenty fast, and they even handle well, but you won't catch me wanting one (never actually driven one so I'm being careful here). You said yourself that you don't want another Corvette...ask yourself why not and you may have your answer.
08-15-2010, 02:29 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
About the only non Porsche parts you'll be buying for your truck motor VW will be fan belts, frost plugs and rocker cover gaskets.
Yeah ok - I see where you're coming from now. Ummm, that V8 Porsche might be *just* the car for you after all.
Forget all that heritage crap I was rattling on about earlier. Fairy tales, nothing more.
