Not another IMS issue again !!!!!
08-03-2010, 03:49 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Here is another to join the club... The owner of this engine thought he had a bad RMS and never knew the IMS issue existed... That is until he pulled the tranny and found a weird broken stud in the bellhousing with a huge hole in the IMS bearing flange that released engine oil everywhere..
This one is toast, the engine didn't get a tremendous amount of foreign object debris in the oil, but the failure took out the IMS drive gear to the point that a new bearing can't be inserted.
This one is downstairs right now, its a 3.6, the client is facing a 10K repair with us, a new Porsche engine, a used Porsche engine or an 18K full FSI upgrade. He was almost in tears yesterday when I had to put on my mortician's hat and tell him the news..
Here are some of the photos from yesterday's documentation process.. This one passed away at 51K, I signed it's death certificate yesterday.
This one is toast, the engine didn't get a tremendous amount of foreign object debris in the oil, but the failure took out the IMS drive gear to the point that a new bearing can't be inserted.
This one is downstairs right now, its a 3.6, the client is facing a 10K repair with us, a new Porsche engine, a used Porsche engine or an 18K full FSI upgrade. He was almost in tears yesterday when I had to put on my mortician's hat and tell him the news..
Here are some of the photos from yesterday's documentation process.. This one passed away at 51K, I signed it's death certificate yesterday.
Last edited by Jake Raby; 01-11-2015 at 11:56 PM.
08-03-2010, 04:35 PM
#19
$27,000!!!!!! CAD
THIS is what I was quoted by dealer.
I was informed that, yes, IMS shaft broke, metal shards all throughout engine and obviously, total failure.
The dealer mentioned that I was out of warrenty period. I was, by about 2-2 1/2 months. I was afraid that this was the case and it is.
Now the dealer did mention that they would contact Porsche to see what could be done. Given that this did happen so close to the end of the warrenty period, they MIGHT be able to help in some way but no guarantees.....
I have been thinking, if this is how much it costs FOR THE ENGINE, given what the car is worth, does this even make any sense??????
I also am thinking of calling the dealer in Texas, where I got her, to get any assistance about what I can do.
Right now, though, I have this huge weight in the bottom of my stomach about this whole episode.
THIS is what I was quoted by dealer.
I was informed that, yes, IMS shaft broke, metal shards all throughout engine and obviously, total failure.
The dealer mentioned that I was out of warrenty period. I was, by about 2-2 1/2 months. I was afraid that this was the case and it is.
Now the dealer did mention that they would contact Porsche to see what could be done. Given that this did happen so close to the end of the warrenty period, they MIGHT be able to help in some way but no guarantees.....
I have been thinking, if this is how much it costs FOR THE ENGINE, given what the car is worth, does this even make any sense??????
I also am thinking of calling the dealer in Texas, where I got her, to get any assistance about what I can do.
Right now, though, I have this huge weight in the bottom of my stomach about this whole episode.
You were quoted absolute top dollar for a Canadian engine replacement. If Porsche does nothing for you and you want some options, PM me and I can make some locally-oriented suggestions. I would also humbly submit that the time-honoured Porschephile practice of finding a used motor and rebuilding it with great aftermarket pieces might be cheaper and produce a very satisfactory result.
Sorry this happened to you. Hang in there.
08-03-2010, 04:40 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Fight Porsche NA hard and persistently to get this taken care of at their cost 100%. I was adamant with them on my 2003 C4S, showed them all of my service records, including 3 RMS failures and 2 IMS issues.
My repairs were covered 100% out of warranty by 6 months........be articulate with your presentation of facts and back-up documentation via mail to them and don't take the first no for the answer.
Ask for higher authority at Porsche NA and your dealer to assist with request for out of warranty coverage at 100% due to the reported incidences with the base 996 engine not being a secret..only one that they want to go away....hang in there............sorry this happened to you..........
My repairs were covered 100% out of warranty by 6 months........be articulate with your presentation of facts and back-up documentation via mail to them and don't take the first no for the answer.
Ask for higher authority at Porsche NA and your dealer to assist with request for out of warranty coverage at 100% due to the reported incidences with the base 996 engine not being a secret..only one that they want to go away....hang in there............sorry this happened to you..........
08-03-2010, 04:41 PM
#21
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An aftermarket warranty (they call it a service contract) for powertrain, cooling system, HVAC plus fuel and braking systems will cost you a few hundreds a year and make this kind of trouble non existent.
Knowing what we all know about pros and cons of these exeptional cars how can anybody be so careless and not make sure the car is properly insured? You can keep renewing it until the car is 16 yrs old and you have limit of 20k km per year.
The price of the contract is just a pittance (few hundreds a year) and in almost all cases the claims will cover it fast, I am sure. In my case for instance just a new transmission which I enjoy now for free since less then one year of ownership paid for all the premiums twice over and then some.
Before the car is 16 yrs old and 320,000 km on the odometer there WILL be at least one major repair-replacement made, no question about that.
Knowing what we all know about pros and cons of these exeptional cars how can anybody be so careless and not make sure the car is properly insured? You can keep renewing it until the car is 16 yrs old and you have limit of 20k km per year.
The price of the contract is just a pittance (few hundreds a year) and in almost all cases the claims will cover it fast, I am sure. In my case for instance just a new transmission which I enjoy now for free since less then one year of ownership paid for all the premiums twice over and then some.
Before the car is 16 yrs old and 320,000 km on the odometer there WILL be at least one major repair-replacement made, no question about that.
08-03-2010, 04:47 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
I tend to disagree about the aftermarket warranty.. We have had nothing except issues with warranty companies and no longer accept work that will be paid for by the warranty company..
Last year it took us 3 months of fighting with a warranty company to have an IMS failure covered, the car sat here in the way the entire time. They didn't want to pay for the IMS replacement, but they wanted to buy the owner a USED engine for the car!
There are exceptions, but my experience with aftermarket warranties hasn't been good at all.. The cubicle sitting, headset wearing "representatives" are generally lost and they will make every excuse in the world about why they won't pay your claim, or why they (conveniently) lost your paperwork.
No warranty solves the problem. Real piece of mind comes from action.
Last year it took us 3 months of fighting with a warranty company to have an IMS failure covered, the car sat here in the way the entire time. They didn't want to pay for the IMS replacement, but they wanted to buy the owner a USED engine for the car!
There are exceptions, but my experience with aftermarket warranties hasn't been good at all.. The cubicle sitting, headset wearing "representatives" are generally lost and they will make every excuse in the world about why they won't pay your claim, or why they (conveniently) lost your paperwork.
No warranty solves the problem. Real piece of mind comes from action.
08-03-2010, 05:00 PM
#23
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You obviously chose the wrong company for your warranty, sorry to see that.
My insurer paid gladly for EVERYTHING I claimed so far:
Coolant expansion tank replacent,
RMS leaks twice, IMS once,
Sway bar end links noisy-replaced
Brand new transmission from Porsche shipped directly from Germany,
Additional labour to reseal intermediate shaft flange (not really leaking but already there so...)
Free access so new clutch + flywheel installed (no labour expense, just the parts from Sunset)
All this since Jan 2009 and so far 38,000 km driven CAREFREE.
SERVICE CONTRACT WITH WELL REASEARCHED COMPANY R U L E S !!
PS And yes, I considered aftermarket IMS bearing but in my case it makes no sense since it will create possibility of denying the engine claim since it is non-porsche part.
But, why should I WORRY or PAY for a preventive repairs since I AM DRIVING CAREFREE ALREADY!!!!!??
PS PS I can see now how you can have a conflict of interest on this topic Jake.
My insurer paid gladly for EVERYTHING I claimed so far:
Coolant expansion tank replacent,
RMS leaks twice, IMS once,
Sway bar end links noisy-replaced
Brand new transmission from Porsche shipped directly from Germany,
Additional labour to reseal intermediate shaft flange (not really leaking but already there so...)
Free access so new clutch + flywheel installed (no labour expense, just the parts from Sunset)
All this since Jan 2009 and so far 38,000 km driven CAREFREE.
SERVICE CONTRACT WITH WELL REASEARCHED COMPANY R U L E S !!
PS And yes, I considered aftermarket IMS bearing but in my case it makes no sense since it will create possibility of denying the engine claim since it is non-porsche part.
But, why should I WORRY or PAY for a preventive repairs since I AM DRIVING CAREFREE ALREADY!!!!!??
PS PS I can see now how you can have a conflict of interest on this topic Jake.
08-03-2010, 05:02 PM
#24
I tend to disagree about the aftermarket warranty.. We have had nothing except issues with warranty companies and no longer accept work that will be paid for by the warranty company..
Last year it took us 3 months of fighting with a warranty company to have an IMS failure covered, the car sat here in the way the entire time. They didn't want to pay for the IMS replacement, but they wanted to buy the owner a USED engine for the car!
There are exceptions, but my experience with aftermarket warranties hasn't been good at all.. The cubicle sitting, headset wearing "representatives" are generally lost and they will make every excuse in the world about why they won't pay your claim, or why they (conveniently) lost your paperwork.
No warranty solves the problem. Real piece of mind comes from action.
Last year it took us 3 months of fighting with a warranty company to have an IMS failure covered, the car sat here in the way the entire time. They didn't want to pay for the IMS replacement, but they wanted to buy the owner a USED engine for the car!
There are exceptions, but my experience with aftermarket warranties hasn't been good at all.. The cubicle sitting, headset wearing "representatives" are generally lost and they will make every excuse in the world about why they won't pay your claim, or why they (conveniently) lost your paperwork.
No warranty solves the problem. Real piece of mind comes from action.
-td
08-03-2010, 05:04 PM
#25
08-03-2010, 05:10 PM
#26
Fight Porsche NA hard and persistently to get this taken care of at their cost 100%. I was adamant with them on my 2003 C4S, showed them all of my service records, including 3 RMS failures and 2 IMS issues.
My repairs were covered 100% out of warranty by 6 months........be articulate with your presentation of facts and back-up documentation via mail to them and don't take the first no for the answer.
Ask for higher authority at Porsche NA and your dealer to assist with request for out of warranty coverage at 100% due to the reported incidences with the base 996 engine not being a secret..only one that they want to go away....hang in there............sorry this happened to you..........
My repairs were covered 100% out of warranty by 6 months........be articulate with your presentation of facts and back-up documentation via mail to them and don't take the first no for the answer.
Ask for higher authority at Porsche NA and your dealer to assist with request for out of warranty coverage at 100% due to the reported incidences with the base 996 engine not being a secret..only one that they want to go away....hang in there............sorry this happened to you..........
08-03-2010, 05:11 PM
#27
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Yeah, I got it now, himself.
Thats why my PS PS above still stands strong and true, even more so.
There is absolutely no question an aftermarket warranty is the best way to go here.
Failing that a big time preventative maintenence would be a second, more expensive and troublesome option of course.
Thats why my PS PS above still stands strong and true, even more so.
There is absolutely no question an aftermarket warranty is the best way to go here.
Failing that a big time preventative maintenence would be a second, more expensive and troublesome option of course.
08-03-2010, 05:53 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
It may be a "win" in some ways, but it wasn't for my company as I had a car on site that was stored for months. We also had to give up a service bay for 4 days while the insurance company sent people out to look at the car over and over again. One of those people looked at the steering shaft for the "IMS bearing" as he had it confused with a Ford that has an intermediate bearing on the steering gear that fails all the time! The people were LOST!
Finally my client ended up losing so much of his time (He is a Doctor) dealing with the warranty company that he ended up paying me and then he dealt with the warranty company for another 3 months before it was paid.
In another situation a warranty company paid for a new engine, but then they had a change of heart 3 months later and sued the claimant and that almost got us tied up in the middle of it.
I am not alone, many of our shops that we work with also no longer honor warranty work if they are to be paid by the warranty company. The hassles, lies, documentation and overall lack of professionalism and sense of urgency that the warranty companies have can easily turn a job from being profitable to being a liability. I spent over 170 minutes on the phone last year with one claim and it never was honored by the insurance company. I was never paid for that.
Some are better than others, so results vary. I'd rather take my chances, I never buy an additional warranty on anything, if it blows up, catches fire or implodes I just smile and walk away. At least I don't have to deal with a cubicle sitter that wouldn't know a 10mm wrench if it flew out of the flower pot next to his desk and thumped him in the nuts.
Finally my client ended up losing so much of his time (He is a Doctor) dealing with the warranty company that he ended up paying me and then he dealt with the warranty company for another 3 months before it was paid.
In another situation a warranty company paid for a new engine, but then they had a change of heart 3 months later and sued the claimant and that almost got us tied up in the middle of it.
I am not alone, many of our shops that we work with also no longer honor warranty work if they are to be paid by the warranty company. The hassles, lies, documentation and overall lack of professionalism and sense of urgency that the warranty companies have can easily turn a job from being profitable to being a liability. I spent over 170 minutes on the phone last year with one claim and it never was honored by the insurance company. I was never paid for that.
Some are better than others, so results vary. I'd rather take my chances, I never buy an additional warranty on anything, if it blows up, catches fire or implodes I just smile and walk away. At least I don't have to deal with a cubicle sitter that wouldn't know a 10mm wrench if it flew out of the flower pot next to his desk and thumped him in the nuts.
08-03-2010, 05:54 PM
#29
Drifting
The $27K number is ridiculous!!! There is a new 3.6 engine posted now for $9,500 without a core. And you can buy them from Sunset, Suncoast and others in the low teens. This dealer is trying to charge list +++ for the engine and probably an obscene amount of labor.
