Replacing spark plugs and tubes in a 1999 C2
04-07-2010, 05:06 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Replacing spark plugs and tubes in a 1999 C2
Let me start off by stating this is the first time I have worked on a Porsche. Most of my wrenching has been done on Alfa's and BMW's. I am impressed with this Porsches engine layout. I thought it would be much worse than it has been. When you peek under the car or look in the engine compartment it looks like 10 lbs of Sh*t stuffed in a 5 lb sack!! But I am not impressed with this stupid spark plug tube. They had to know when they concocted this design it would leak.
I am in the process of doing the 60K service on my 1999 C2 Cab which includes replacement of the spark plugs. Because I read on Renntech that the spark plug tubes often leak and possibly crack I also ordered 6 new tubes and all new seals. I have only done the passenger side, and discovered that 2 of the 3 seals were deformed and leaking oil. Those deformed seals must have become deformed by Otto when he popped them in the motor in Stuttgart. There is no way they could break and creep like that with time. I used a synthetic grease to lube them up and they easily popped right in.
Of note, the spark plugs I found in my motor were Bosch, not Beru. I ordered new Bosch ones from Pelican.
I went to West Marine who is a marine retailer to locate the T handle rubber expanding transom plug. The plug was $6. The 1" (25.4mm) plug was too small. The spark plug tube is 26.3mm dia. Even when I screwed the plug in as tight as I could get it, the plug wouldn't expand large enough to fit tight inside the tube. So I ended up buying a 1-1/4" plug and trimmed it down to fit. I used razor blades and a peanut grinder with a wire wheel to shape the plug. The reshaped plug worked perfectly and easily pulled the tubes out.
You will note from the pictures how oily everything was. (My first clue my O rings had failed!) Despite this, the car never leaked oil on the ground or used oil. The tube leak was probably contained mostly by the outer seal. Although some did seep past. The tubes were full of oil, even on the one good seal.
It took 3 cans of carb cleaner on the passenger side, and one can of electrical contact cleaner to clean up the 3 coil packs and plugs. I presprayed with an engine degreaser and let sit overnight before I cleaned with the carb cleaner. It looks much better. All of the coil packs were fine and had no cracks.
Some people have noted it helps to remove the muffflers. ABSOLUTELY. I don't see how you can do this job otherwise. At least not with normal sized hands. Plus I didn't want to take any chances with the tube removal, spark plug threading and replacement of the coil packs. Considering how easy it is to drop the muffflers it's a no brainer. Most of these pics are the passenger side which is the "easy" side. The drivers side is worse. I started on the drivers side and gave up, then moved to the passenger side. That's tonight.
To remove the muffler you need to loosen the two 17mm bolts on the round cat to muffler clamp. Push the clamp towards the cat side until the clamp is flush with the end of the pipe. Then there are 3 nuts which have to be removed from the plate which is attached to the bracket with the 4 pipe supports. The muffler is free at this point. You need to remove the rear tire too because the muffler slides forward and then down. I didn't know what I was doing, so I also removed the 2 very long bolts which bolt the muffler to the bracket, but in hindsight I don't think I needed to do that. That's it and then you have excellent access.
The third picture down shows the support plate with the 3 holes that have the three nuts which have to be removed to seperate the muffler from the support bracket. The first and second pictures (before) shows the muffler bracket before I removed the muffler with one of the two long bolts (looks like a dumbell), that I don't think I needed to remove.
Lastly, despite the warnings against using anti seize, I lightly used it. I have 30 years of experience (weekend warrior) of working on all aluminum engines, and I have never once had a problem with anti seize. I use the gold Lubro Moly brand and am careful when I torque fasteners. When I replace these plugs next time, I know they won't be seized and will screw out safely. It makes no sense to me to not use anti seize on a spark plug. When water, aluminum and steel are connected together it makes sense to me to use anti seize.
All this work was done on a cold motor, not a warm one as suggested by PAG in the workshop manual.
I am in the process of doing the 60K service on my 1999 C2 Cab which includes replacement of the spark plugs. Because I read on Renntech that the spark plug tubes often leak and possibly crack I also ordered 6 new tubes and all new seals. I have only done the passenger side, and discovered that 2 of the 3 seals were deformed and leaking oil. Those deformed seals must have become deformed by Otto when he popped them in the motor in Stuttgart. There is no way they could break and creep like that with time. I used a synthetic grease to lube them up and they easily popped right in.
Of note, the spark plugs I found in my motor were Bosch, not Beru. I ordered new Bosch ones from Pelican.
I went to West Marine who is a marine retailer to locate the T handle rubber expanding transom plug. The plug was $6. The 1" (25.4mm) plug was too small. The spark plug tube is 26.3mm dia. Even when I screwed the plug in as tight as I could get it, the plug wouldn't expand large enough to fit tight inside the tube. So I ended up buying a 1-1/4" plug and trimmed it down to fit. I used razor blades and a peanut grinder with a wire wheel to shape the plug. The reshaped plug worked perfectly and easily pulled the tubes out.
You will note from the pictures how oily everything was. (My first clue my O rings had failed!) Despite this, the car never leaked oil on the ground or used oil. The tube leak was probably contained mostly by the outer seal. Although some did seep past. The tubes were full of oil, even on the one good seal.
It took 3 cans of carb cleaner on the passenger side, and one can of electrical contact cleaner to clean up the 3 coil packs and plugs. I presprayed with an engine degreaser and let sit overnight before I cleaned with the carb cleaner. It looks much better. All of the coil packs were fine and had no cracks.
Some people have noted it helps to remove the muffflers. ABSOLUTELY. I don't see how you can do this job otherwise. At least not with normal sized hands. Plus I didn't want to take any chances with the tube removal, spark plug threading and replacement of the coil packs. Considering how easy it is to drop the muffflers it's a no brainer. Most of these pics are the passenger side which is the "easy" side. The drivers side is worse. I started on the drivers side and gave up, then moved to the passenger side. That's tonight.
To remove the muffler you need to loosen the two 17mm bolts on the round cat to muffler clamp. Push the clamp towards the cat side until the clamp is flush with the end of the pipe. Then there are 3 nuts which have to be removed from the plate which is attached to the bracket with the 4 pipe supports. The muffler is free at this point. You need to remove the rear tire too because the muffler slides forward and then down. I didn't know what I was doing, so I also removed the 2 very long bolts which bolt the muffler to the bracket, but in hindsight I don't think I needed to do that. That's it and then you have excellent access.
The third picture down shows the support plate with the 3 holes that have the three nuts which have to be removed to seperate the muffler from the support bracket. The first and second pictures (before) shows the muffler bracket before I removed the muffler with one of the two long bolts (looks like a dumbell), that I don't think I needed to remove.
Lastly, despite the warnings against using anti seize, I lightly used it. I have 30 years of experience (weekend warrior) of working on all aluminum engines, and I have never once had a problem with anti seize. I use the gold Lubro Moly brand and am careful when I torque fasteners. When I replace these plugs next time, I know they won't be seized and will screw out safely. It makes no sense to me to not use anti seize on a spark plug. When water, aluminum and steel are connected together it makes sense to me to use anti seize.
All this work was done on a cold motor, not a warm one as suggested by PAG in the workshop manual.
Last edited by Cefalu; 04-08-2010 at 04:28 AM. Reason: typos
04-07-2010, 05:14 PM
#2
Race Director
Nice write up, and something I would like to do fairly soon. I'd wager that every 911 engine set up with these spark plug tools will leak at some point. I recently had my mufflers off, so they should be easier this time because I replaced all the rusty fasteners. Let us know how tonight goes for you on the other side.
04-08-2010, 04:26 AM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
No drama finishing up. 
You are crazy if you don't take the exhaust off to do this job. In fact I would warn any one who is considering doing this job for the first time that you need to drop the exhaust so you can see what the heck you are doing. otherwise, 3 of the 6 spark plugs you will be doing by feel.
If I were only changing the spark plugs, I might be tempted to leave the exhaust in place now that I have this job under my belt. But for those of you who have engines with tubes and O rings, you should R&R the O rings when you replace the spark plugs anyway. They are going to leak with time, and it makes a mess. I used 1 can of engine cleaner, 6 cans of carb cleaner and one can of electrical contact cleaner to clean up the oily mess.
The exhaust takes 5 minutes to drop and 5 minutes to install on each side. 10 easily accessesd nuts total. You will drive yourself insane trying to R&R the upper allen screws of the coil packs with the exhaust in place. It will also be very difficult to pop the tubes and spark plugs in and out working with little light or hand space.
What I found interesting was 4 of 6 inner O rings were pinched when the motor was built. If you look at the pictures below, every drivers side O ring was pinched out of place when the motor was built. You will also note that the pinch was at the bottom of the tube every time. AND the part number lines up with the pinch. For whatever reason, they installed the tube so the part number was facing down. One O ring was totally cut, and one looked fine. 5 of 6 failed.
NOTE: the green O rings are a new PAG part # that superseded the orange ones installed at the factory.
You need to be very careful when you connect the plug to the coil pack. Its not an easy fit. It takes some massaging and you need to hear the "click" to confirm the plug properly connected to the coil pack. Very hard to do with the mufflers in place. Since this was my first coil pack R&R, I wanted a visual confirmation as well, and you can't do that with the mufflers in place.
With the spark plug tubes removed I was able to see what the inside of the head looked like, and I was very happy. Totally clean and looked excellent for a 57K miles motor.
Tomorrow night I put the plastic cover back on the bottom of the car, replace the serpentine belt and my 60K service is done.
Ho finito
You are crazy if you don't take the exhaust off to do this job. In fact I would warn any one who is considering doing this job for the first time that you need to drop the exhaust so you can see what the heck you are doing. otherwise, 3 of the 6 spark plugs you will be doing by feel.
If I were only changing the spark plugs, I might be tempted to leave the exhaust in place now that I have this job under my belt. But for those of you who have engines with tubes and O rings, you should R&R the O rings when you replace the spark plugs anyway. They are going to leak with time, and it makes a mess. I used 1 can of engine cleaner, 6 cans of carb cleaner and one can of electrical contact cleaner to clean up the oily mess.
The exhaust takes 5 minutes to drop and 5 minutes to install on each side. 10 easily accessesd nuts total. You will drive yourself insane trying to R&R the upper allen screws of the coil packs with the exhaust in place. It will also be very difficult to pop the tubes and spark plugs in and out working with little light or hand space.
What I found interesting was 4 of 6 inner O rings were pinched when the motor was built. If you look at the pictures below, every drivers side O ring was pinched out of place when the motor was built. You will also note that the pinch was at the bottom of the tube every time. AND the part number lines up with the pinch. For whatever reason, they installed the tube so the part number was facing down. One O ring was totally cut, and one looked fine. 5 of 6 failed.
NOTE: the green O rings are a new PAG part # that superseded the orange ones installed at the factory.
You need to be very careful when you connect the plug to the coil pack. Its not an easy fit. It takes some massaging and you need to hear the "click" to confirm the plug properly connected to the coil pack. Very hard to do with the mufflers in place. Since this was my first coil pack R&R, I wanted a visual confirmation as well, and you can't do that with the mufflers in place.
With the spark plug tubes removed I was able to see what the inside of the head looked like, and I was very happy. Totally clean and looked excellent for a 57K miles motor.
Tomorrow night I put the plastic cover back on the bottom of the car, replace the serpentine belt and my 60K service is done.
Ho finito
Last edited by Cefalu; 01-27-2013 at 10:22 PM.
04-08-2010, 10:11 AM
#4
Drifting
"When water, aluminum and steel are connected together it makes sense to me to use anti seize."
I agree with the anti-seize (a tiny bit of it) and I was able to change all plugs, coil packs and tubes without dropping the cans, but by doing it this way - a lift is mandatory and you can remove the back tires so you can move around and back up without hitting your head, (ask me how I figured that out!). I had no leaks or clean up to do so I gave it a shot and with the exception of a bit of skin missing, (I call it P Car 'MACROdermabrasion'!) it wasn't too bad as long as you use the right tools.
I agree with the anti-seize (a tiny bit of it) and I was able to change all plugs, coil packs and tubes without dropping the cans, but by doing it this way - a lift is mandatory and you can remove the back tires so you can move around and back up without hitting your head, (ask me how I figured that out!). I had no leaks or clean up to do so I gave it a shot and with the exception of a bit of skin missing, (I call it P Car 'MACROdermabrasion'!) it wasn't too bad as long as you use the right tools.
04-08-2010, 10:22 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Nice write up. You are definately right about removing the mufflers first. I did this job for a buddy who was afraid to remove his mufflers due to rusting bolts so had to do with mufflers in situ. It sucked and took way longer than when I did it on my car without the mufflers. I have pretty big hands and that didn't help either.
04-08-2010, 12:15 PM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
I agree on the lift. It would have made the work a lot easier. I am seeing that Porsches have a lot of work done from below so I am starting to look at lifts.
key tools here were 1/4" ratchets and sockets and a 5/8" magnetic spark plug socket I bought for $6 on eBay.
key tools here were 1/4" ratchets and sockets and a 5/8" magnetic spark plug socket I bought for $6 on eBay.
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04-08-2010, 01:03 PM
#8
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
How did you lift your vehicle? Both rear tires up at once? Did you lift from the engine or the jack point?
Seems like we were both getting our hands dirty recently!
Seems like we were both getting our hands dirty recently!
04-08-2010, 01:39 PM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
I lifted the front first with two floor jacks. I lifted the pass side with a floor jack and put a jack stand under the drivers side. The car is pretty stiff and the whole front of the car comes off the ground when you lift just one side. Then I lifted the pass side with the 2nd floor jack under a diagonal member that had some big bolts and removed the first floor jack and replaced it with a jack stand. At this point I had jack stands under both forward jacking points. From the ground to the jacking points was 13-1/2" all the way around.
Then I raised the back high enough (just a couple of inches) with a floor jack under the drivers side suspension arm so I could slide a floor jack from the rear under the cross member that tranverese the car at the engine/trans joint. I lifted at the cross member until the car was high enough the place jackstands under the two rear jacking points. it went pretty quick.
Then I raised the back high enough (just a couple of inches) with a floor jack under the drivers side suspension arm so I could slide a floor jack from the rear under the cross member that tranverese the car at the engine/trans joint. I lifted at the cross member until the car was high enough the place jackstands under the two rear jacking points. it went pretty quick.
04-10-2010, 02:28 AM
#10
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This is exactly how my engine looks right now on the driver's side. I assumed it was the CPS, not the spark plug tubes. I'll have a closer look tomorrow just to make sure. A couple of questions:
1) Did you replace all the O-rings, and if so, what were the part numbers? Assume you got them at the dealer, correct?
2) Can you provide a picture of the tool you modified to remove the tubes? It looks like the tubes simply pull out once you have the tool, correct?
1) Did you replace all the O-rings, and if so, what were the part numbers? Assume you got them at the dealer, correct?
2) Can you provide a picture of the tool you modified to remove the tubes? It looks like the tubes simply pull out once you have the tool, correct?
04-10-2010, 12:13 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Only the 1999-2001 cars have the tubes, and I don't know if the turbos have tubes or not. The newer engines used a gasket between the valve cover and head. On those cars you have to remove the valve cover to replace a leaky spark plug seal. That seems like more work to me than the O rings.
below is the tube puller, $5 at west marine. I heard some people found the plug at Wal Mart.
below is the tube puller, $5 at west marine. I heard some people found the plug at Wal Mart.
04-11-2010, 08:06 PM
#12
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I have a 1999 with what appears to be the same problem and I thought I was going to have to remove the valva covers-glad I'm not going to need to go that route! Part nos?
04-12-2010, 12:05 PM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
I don't know the part numbers, as I bought all the parts online at pelican parts. http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/..._pg1.htm#item2
But, I have been starting to buy parts from Sunset imports who is a Porsche dealer. They sell at their cost plus 15% http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...fers&do=sunset Sunset does not have an online catalog.
So far it seems their prices are very close to each other.
But, I have been starting to buy parts from Sunset imports who is a Porsche dealer. They sell at their cost plus 15% http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...fers&do=sunset Sunset does not have an online catalog.
So far it seems their prices are very close to each other.
12-14-2011, 12:29 AM
#14
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I don't know the part numbers, as I bought all the parts online at pelican parts. http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/..._pg1.htm#item2
But, I have been starting to buy parts from Sunset imports who is a Porsche dealer. They sell at their cost plus 15% http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...fers&do=sunset Sunset does not have an online catalog.
So far it seems their prices are very close to each other.
But, I have been starting to buy parts from Sunset imports who is a Porsche dealer. They sell at their cost plus 15% http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...fers&do=sunset Sunset does not have an online catalog.
So far it seems their prices are very close to each other.
The grease is like 45$.
12-14-2011, 09:48 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Lots more info on the spark plug change over at Renntech (login required)
