aracer

Advise would be most beneficial on who to chose for a 3.4 to 3.6 rebuild after engine failure? of couse it would be great to know what the overall cost would be on delivery. thanks Mark

Navy'sporsche

There are two routes that I would suggest. The first is purchasing a reman. engine through a Porsche dealership. Cost is around 13-15,000. Engine is 'new' from the throttle body to the exhaust ports. Comes with a 2 yr unlimited mileage warranty.

The second is Jake Raby's rebuild program which inludes upgraded internal engine components to mitigate some of the common issues including RMS, cylinder cracking, etc. I beleive the cost is around 16,000. He uses your core engine so prices can vary depending on what failure you have experienced. You can find more details at his website, flat 6 innovations.

rwiii

Do you think at $15-16k this is really worth doing? Wouldn't you be farther ahead selling the car to Jake (he's posted that he's seeking donor cars) and finding another car to buy? With the cars worth $20-$25k i question the validity of going through this on a stock '911. If you've got $30,000 invested in racing mods it might be a different story.

Van

Disregarding price, I'd trust anything coming out of Jake's shop - he knows his stuff.

RallyJon

If anyone can come up with a realistic way of looking at this, I'd like to hear it.

Is Porsche unique in making replacement/rebuilt engines so preposterously expensive in relation to the value of the car? What happens when you blow up the motor in your 2005 Corvette (worth about the same as a Mk 1 996)? Think it costs $16k?

And a 996 with a recent engine doesn't seem to bring the significantly higher price that the replacement cost would warrant, either.

For the above reasons, I can't really see owning one of these cars without an aftermarket warranty that will cover a dead engine. The math just doesn't work.

Marlon

Based on the ridiculous costs associated with a new or rebuilt 3.4L, I'd seriously consider going with a new Porsche-sourced 3.6L engine recognizing that the conversion might be tricky. Somebody just has to come out with a professional no-fuss/no-muss turnkey conversion kit to make this happen. A 3.6 conversion + costs associated with making it happen might be less than going with a 3.4 reman.

BruceP

Actually, it's the risk of an aftermarket warranty that doesn't work. They don't sell these things in order to lose money on them. I'm sympathetic to people who buy them and respect that choice, but in a purely rational sense they are a bad bet. The odds are overwhelmingly stacked in favour of the house, by definition.

The whole 'value' thing is totally emotional (Daniel Kahneman won a Nobel Prize for proving this). The "more than it's worth" argument is only valid if the next thing you're going to do is sell the car. Accountants call this 'crystallizing your losses'. Otherwise, the real value in the car lies in its future usefulness to you. It can make perfect sense to invest in a car twice what it's worth, if you then get ten years of enjoyment out of it.

People have to forget about theoretical resale value, and forget about being embarrassed by people on message boards, and just ask themselves what they want from their cars. 70% of the Porsches ever built are still on the road, and only a tiny handful are worth anywhere close to what their owners spent on them over the years. Most of the rest still thought it was 'worth it'.

A car isn't an investment. In the case of a Porsche, it's a matter of exchanging money for pleasure. I will never confess what I've spent on my car, but I'll tell you two things: It's far more than I could get by selling it, and to me it's been worth it.

rwiii

Great post BruceP. I have a Yukon Denali with 175k in miles I don't particularly care for but when it goes I'll throw another engine in it and keep on going. Regarding the Porsche that I love, when the engine goes at $15k I'll move on. My personal decision but I can't ignore those numbers.

RallyJon

You are of course correct, but I think most people would prefer to have a running car on an ongoing basis, as well as a car that one could sell if need be.

If insurance (aftermarket warranty) doesn't work, maybe the best plan is a maintenance savings account? That would avoid the psychologically damaging situation of needing to put $16k into a car just to sell it.

But that's exactly what insurance is for, isn't it? Taking an expensive but unlikely risk, and spreading it among a group of people who all pay a little to avoid paying a lot if bad luck happens to strike them.

steepsnow

I just did a reman 3.4L in a '99 C4. It was painful, but every time I drive it, I smile.
I looked at every possibility from coast to coast. The factory warranty for 2yrs, plus getting almost everything "on" the engine "new" (alternator, AC Compressor, etc.), made that option the best IMHO.

I plan to drive a lot of miles for the next two years...

I knew that I would be financially "upside down" on the car in a major way. The overall value for resale of the car was not a "reason" to complete the fix. Having a fun car that I like and want to drive for a while were "good enough" reasons for me.

Now that my car is a long-term keeper (5+ years), rather than a quick-flip (as previously planned: 2-3 years), I threw a couple more bucks at some of the "creature comforts" it to dial it in...new exhaust (PSE), new sound system (Focal speakers, subwoofer, etc), Laser Jammer, hard wired radar detector.

Over the next couple years, I'll work on suspension and track wheels...and as many track days as possible.

eric523

I'd recommend the factory reman 3.4L motor. You do NOT HAVE TO GOT TO DEALERSHIP to get a factory reman engine with a warranty. Reputable indy's can install these motors for less. The engine will be less money, and the labor will be less money. Just make sure you get a factory rebuilt motor.

These motors were not always so expensive, and the cars were not always worth so little...
When these cars were only 2-5 years old and worth $50K, a reman 3.4L motor was $11k INSTALLED! The price has almost doubled as the cars value was cut in half

99C2

Yeah:

This is the very subject that keep me up at night! I keep thinking about trading foran 80's series 911 but just cannot pull the trigger.

Thanks,
99C2

Marlon

My 99' has a factory reman that was installed by an Indy right before I bought it from a local, small used car dealer this Summer. As a matter of fact, it only has 2K miles on the reman. Now the car all of a sudden has an overheat issue if you let it just sit at idle in commuting traffic for instance. If you gently rev the engine to 2K rpm with the car in neutral while sitting still, it cools back to normal - no need for airflow over the radiators. I took it to the dealer (Porsche Arlington) and they replaced the lo-speed cooling fan for 600 bucks - did not fix it. They said if I had an engine 'problem' Porsche would not cover it because the engine was NOT installed by a dealer and they just scratched their heads and then concluded that they did not want to troubleshoot it.

I talked to Jake and sent it to Flat6 and he said it looked like it had been overheated based on the tops of the pistons being oily and said he'd rebuild it for me for 8800 dollars+ or quickly find a buyer for the car for $15.5K dollars. Jake would not troubleshoot the car to determine the cooling issue. I balked and had the car shipped BACK to me and now it is at my trusted local Indy - the place I should have took it in the first place. I sent it to Flat6 based on their rep and am ambivalent now about sending it or anything to Flat 6 again. On the other hand the Indy could come back and say "Bad engine..." Then I'm scrod because the 2yr Porsche warranty is not worth a crap unless the engine is installed by a dealer. Only trouble is with my car is that it runs as strong as an ox and would easily run circles around my two previous 993's - so I don;t get it.

I talked to yet another big Porsche Indy while the car was at Flat6 and they said likely my car is likely fixable real fast or Flat6 would not have been quick to "organize a sale to an interested party..." So we'll let the cards play out and see what the local guys say.

Tbred911

buy the engine from a dealer and have them install it... you spend so much on engine already... and now you want to save $1K by an indy install? huh?

Macster

I read in a recent thread a post -- within the last couple of months -- about an indy shop that installed a factory engine ordered through a dealership that found the engine defective.

The indy shop had to jump through hoops to prove to the dealer the engine was defective but it was successful and got the engine replaced under the parts warranty.

I wish I had more than hearsay to offer you, but the posting read like the truth.

At least I think you need to do a bit of research to find out just what warranty there is regarding an engine bought from a dealership and presumably ultimately bought from PCNA.

Sincerely,

Macster.