BEST REMAN 996 ENGINE?
11-20-2009, 12:17 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Sounds like you know what really went down. Care to share?
I thought Jake provided more than enough info to state his case with no counter response and would have no issues with shipping my car down to him in the future.
I thought Jake provided more than enough info to state his case with no counter response and would have no issues with shipping my car down to him in the future.
11-20-2009, 12:41 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
My post stated exactly what happened with the entire saga from my viewpoint. I only left out the aspects that pertained to the nightmarish inconvenience that we had to deal with when shipping the car back to the Owner through the shipper that he chose. From what I understand from "other conversations" this car and it's owner have quite a history together and lots lead up to the reason why the car was shipped to me.
When the car left my possession the Owner seemed to feel that everything was fair. There were zero conflicts between my staff and the Owner while the car was here at all. Nothing negative was said, he only seemed a little "ticked off" when I refused to make a repair to the engine that was less than a full blown comprehensive recreation.
Of course he had to wait till later to post his disappointment with my company to others- He never stated any of that to me. Thats what pisses me off. If you have a problem with me, say it to me and we'll work it out- otherwise you just created an enemy.
When the car left my possession the Owner seemed to feel that everything was fair. There were zero conflicts between my staff and the Owner while the car was here at all. Nothing negative was said, he only seemed a little "ticked off" when I refused to make a repair to the engine that was less than a full blown comprehensive recreation.
Of course he had to wait till later to post his disappointment with my company to others- He never stated any of that to me. Thats what pisses me off. If you have a problem with me, say it to me and we'll work it out- otherwise you just created an enemy.
11-20-2009, 01:55 PM
#33
Here in the Google age, I can't fault someone for not wanting to turn the other cheek. Search is agnostic about the truth.
That said, I wish everybody would holster their weapons now. People have disagreements with mechanics every day, whereas there are precious few people on these message boards that know a lot about this engine. I'd hate to see one chased off.
That said, I wish everybody would holster their weapons now. People have disagreements with mechanics every day, whereas there are precious few people on these message boards that know a lot about this engine. I'd hate to see one chased off.
11-20-2009, 02:40 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
I found the post thanks to Google Alerts.... Had I left things as Marlon stated my company would have received a ding on it's reputation that was uncalled for.
Getting back on topic:
People need to realize that there are vast differences in reman engines based on who is doing the work, the parts they are changing and what they are replacing them with. We continue to see "reman" engines comprised of a majority of used parts sold for cheap prices.
Some of these are sold with used AOS' installed along with used water pumps and other critical items. Many are replacing piston rings without addressing cylinder issues and in a couple of instances not even replacing timing chains.
Getting back on topic:
People need to realize that there are vast differences in reman engines based on who is doing the work, the parts they are changing and what they are replacing them with. We continue to see "reman" engines comprised of a majority of used parts sold for cheap prices.
Some of these are sold with used AOS' installed along with used water pumps and other critical items. Many are replacing piston rings without addressing cylinder issues and in a couple of instances not even replacing timing chains.
11-20-2009, 04:19 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I have heard that even the Porsche reman engines aren't all that 'new' in that they look shiny on the outside, but it's not all thorough on the inside. I always take this stuff w/ a grain of salt or a box, but it's something to be aware of.
11-20-2009, 06:25 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
As the core engines they are having returned have more and more time and miles on them the reman engines are seeing those effects.
There will be a day when the reman program goes away, or the engines become so expensive that they aren't feasible.
There will be a day when the reman program goes away, or the engines become so expensive that they aren't feasible.
11-20-2009, 06:28 PM
#38
Pro
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I'm lost as to what a reman. engine is exactly? Was it an engine that failed that they repaired it enough to run or was it brought up to date will all the latest parts internally?
11-20-2009, 06:57 PM
#39
Drifting
...update...
Bottom line up front: Local Indy is performing simple troubleshooting on the Cooling system. Found that the t-stat was not performing properly. Replaced it, but there still an issue with the cooling system and they will look at the water pump on Monday.
Discussion: Indy told me today in a detailed conversation that had anyone gotten under the car to check the cooling system with the car running and hot they would have noticed that there was no hot water going to the radiators - in other words, for some reason, hot coolant is not circulating. The radiators were stone cold. That is why they then checked the t-stat - (just like you would on your Dad's V-8 Impala) - same principle. They put my new 160 degree t-stat that I sourced from a Flat6 distributor and the original t-stat in a pan on a hot plate and heated the pan while observing a thermometer and noted some anomolies with the old t-stat (incomplete opening I believe), but I still don't have coolant circulation like I should. (yeah - I know, a few of you will swear and be darned that the 160 t-stat is not going to do a darn thing for me - but it won't hurt either and I can make a more thorough assessment of the 160 stat during daily driving later)
No other issues with the engine so far - starts right up and runs like a champ. No smells - no fumes - just......no cooling. For now. Could be worse - could be easy. Hopefully a weak water pump.
Discussion: Indy told me today in a detailed conversation that had anyone gotten under the car to check the cooling system with the car running and hot they would have noticed that there was no hot water going to the radiators - in other words, for some reason, hot coolant is not circulating. The radiators were stone cold. That is why they then checked the t-stat - (just like you would on your Dad's V-8 Impala) - same principle. They put my new 160 degree t-stat that I sourced from a Flat6 distributor and the original t-stat in a pan on a hot plate and heated the pan while observing a thermometer and noted some anomolies with the old t-stat (incomplete opening I believe), but I still don't have coolant circulation like I should. (yeah - I know, a few of you will swear and be darned that the 160 t-stat is not going to do a darn thing for me - but it won't hurt either and I can make a more thorough assessment of the 160 stat during daily driving later)
No other issues with the engine so far - starts right up and runs like a champ. No smells - no fumes - just......no cooling. For now. Could be worse - could be easy. Hopefully a weak water pump.
11-20-2009, 07:18 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Like I had said on the phone to you at the very beginning, before the car ever was delivered to me, I would bet that someone left a cap plug or rag shoved in the main coolant transfer line when the engine was installed. These rags or plugs are used when the old engine is pulled to keep the coolant from seeping on the technician while the job is being done. They can be left in place and block the majority of flow to the radiators and the rest of the cooling system.
Or the water pump is not moving the coolant at a volume thats effective enough..That could be the water pump, and it could be the noise I hard that I never investigated more deeply.
Either way, the engine failed two tests and it had noises that weren't normal when it arrived here, so even if you get the cooling issue solved you still have more to worry about. Once I noted there were issues I didn't care about finding the reason why the engine was getting hot- I didn't want to run the engine any longer as I didn't want it to finally fail while it was under my care and control. We actually pushed it out of the shop and never fired it again until it was loaded on the shipper's rig.
Put it on a chassis dyno after the repairs are made to the cooling system and it'll be down on power, it has to be with at least 3 cylinders with low compression and only one with the correct compression and less than 5% leak down.
Maybe they'll find the smoking gun, I hope they treat you right.. Heck maybe they'll tear the invoice up as well.
Or the water pump is not moving the coolant at a volume thats effective enough..That could be the water pump, and it could be the noise I hard that I never investigated more deeply.
Either way, the engine failed two tests and it had noises that weren't normal when it arrived here, so even if you get the cooling issue solved you still have more to worry about. Once I noted there were issues I didn't care about finding the reason why the engine was getting hot- I didn't want to run the engine any longer as I didn't want it to finally fail while it was under my care and control. We actually pushed it out of the shop and never fired it again until it was loaded on the shipper's rig.
Put it on a chassis dyno after the repairs are made to the cooling system and it'll be down on power, it has to be with at least 3 cylinders with low compression and only one with the correct compression and less than 5% leak down.
Maybe they'll find the smoking gun, I hope they treat you right.. Heck maybe they'll tear the invoice up as well.
Last edited by Jake Raby; 11-21-2009 at 12:59 AM.
11-22-2009, 09:17 AM
#41
Racer
Jake -- Australian Agent?
Hello Jake,
I have been a mechanic for 39 years and I know that sweet sickly smell of burnt coolant out of an exhaust on startup -- telling you it's seeped into the combustion area during the cooldown process.
Presently I could not do my own rebuild.
My car -- a 2002 Targa has a value here in Australia of about $95,000 so it's worthwhile rebuilding the engine.
How do us Aussies go about getting a "Flat 6 rebuild" with all of the upgrades?
Thanks
I have been a mechanic for 39 years and I know that sweet sickly smell of burnt coolant out of an exhaust on startup -- telling you it's seeped into the combustion area during the cooldown process.
Presently I could not do my own rebuild.
My car -- a 2002 Targa has a value here in Australia of about $95,000 so it's worthwhile rebuilding the engine.
How do us Aussies go about getting a "Flat 6 rebuild" with all of the upgrades?
Thanks
11-22-2009, 12:18 PM
#42
Race Director
Heres my only problem with your methodology Jake:
You say its not worth troubleshooting the overheating with the engine damage. But lets say you get the motor rebuilt the appropriate way, and then you have to start troubleshooting overheating on a brand new engine. At that point, you may subject that new engine to damage as a result of an imperfect cooling system.
However, I agree with the rest of your posts and Its good to see a shop that wants it done right.
You say its not worth troubleshooting the overheating with the engine damage. But lets say you get the motor rebuilt the appropriate way, and then you have to start troubleshooting overheating on a brand new engine. At that point, you may subject that new engine to damage as a result of an imperfect cooling system.
However, I agree with the rest of your posts and Its good to see a shop that wants it done right.
11-22-2009, 01:25 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
Heres my only problem with your methodology Jake:
You say its not worth troubleshooting the overheating with the engine damage. But lets say you get the motor rebuilt the appropriate way, and then you have to start troubleshooting overheating on a brand new engine. At that point, you may subject that new engine to damage as a result of an imperfect cooling system.
However, I agree with the rest of your posts and Its good to see a shop that wants it done right.
You say its not worth troubleshooting the overheating with the engine damage. But lets say you get the motor rebuilt the appropriate way, and then you have to start troubleshooting overheating on a brand new engine. At that point, you may subject that new engine to damage as a result of an imperfect cooling system.
However, I agree with the rest of your posts and Its good to see a shop that wants it done right.
Mr. Gibney,
We ship to Australia routinely and I already have engines from my company in service there. Just send us an email :-)
11-24-2009, 03:05 PM
#44
Drifting
jake - no one asked or hinted to you to reduce the throubleshooting charges on my invoice. When you emailed me the invoice all it said was "Troublshooting on failed engine" or something like that. I called you and simply asked you to tell me what was wrong with the car and to document it on the Invoice - you very quickly told me that you were not going to charge me anything. You also said that your mechanic had just quit and the only person there was Dean. Either you or Dean also said that my car was about the last one that you could take because you all were getting ready to gear up for your 'Racing Season' - made me a little nervous now that I think about it.
How many mechanincs do you employ in your outfit and where are they trained or what are their credintials. Heck - what's your credentials???
How many mechanincs do you employ in your outfit and where are they trained or what are their credintials. Heck - what's your credentials???
Like I had said on the phone to you at the very beginning, before the car ever was delivered to me, I would bet that someone left a cap plug or rag shoved in the main coolant transfer line when the engine was installed. These rags or plugs are used when the old engine is pulled to keep the coolant from seeping on the technician while the job is being done. They can be left in place and block the majority of flow to the radiators and the rest of the cooling system.
Or the water pump is not moving the coolant at a volume thats effective enough..That could be the water pump, and it could be the noise I hard that I never investigated more deeply.
Either way, the engine failed two tests and it had noises that weren't normal when it arrived here, so even if you get the cooling issue solved you still have more to worry about. Once I noted there were issues I didn't care about finding the reason why the engine was getting hot- I didn't want to run the engine any longer as I didn't want it to finally fail while it was under my care and control. We actually pushed it out of the shop and never fired it again until it was loaded on the shipper's rig.
Put it on a chassis dyno after the repairs are made to the cooling system and it'll be down on power, it has to be with at least 3 cylinders with low compression and only one with the correct compression and less than 5% leak down.
Maybe they'll find the smoking gun, I hope they treat you right.. Heck maybe they'll tear the invoice up as well.
Or the water pump is not moving the coolant at a volume thats effective enough..That could be the water pump, and it could be the noise I hard that I never investigated more deeply.
Either way, the engine failed two tests and it had noises that weren't normal when it arrived here, so even if you get the cooling issue solved you still have more to worry about. Once I noted there were issues I didn't care about finding the reason why the engine was getting hot- I didn't want to run the engine any longer as I didn't want it to finally fail while it was under my care and control. We actually pushed it out of the shop and never fired it again until it was loaded on the shipper's rig.
Put it on a chassis dyno after the repairs are made to the cooling system and it'll be down on power, it has to be with at least 3 cylinders with low compression and only one with the correct compression and less than 5% leak down.
Maybe they'll find the smoking gun, I hope they treat you right.. Heck maybe they'll tear the invoice up as well.
11-24-2009, 03:35 PM
#45
Is there some point at which this exchange ends? It is verging on the petty and nasty.
Perhaps just agree that there was some unfortunate miscommunication and leave it at that...
Perhaps just agree that there was some unfortunate miscommunication and leave it at that...