Oil leaks into coolant
10-27-2009, 11:49 PM
#1
AutoX
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oil leaks into coolant
Noticed a flashing light on the high end of the temperature gauge recently, went to my independent service and was told that they found oil in the coolant.....read some previous posts from drivers with the same symptoms which supports what the indie says: instead of trying to find the problem but unlikely to succeed, they suggest a new engine and cleaning out of the radiators etc. Looking at a total of $17,000.00....is it worth for my '00 996 Convertible with 88 0000 miles and a new transmission or should I have them try to locate and fix the problem? (My wife would rather see the car go, but I am a bit sentimental about this issue, I've never driven anything quite like it.)
10-28-2009, 12:55 AM
#3
Race Director
Noticed a flashing light on the high end of the temperature gauge recently, went to my independent service and was told that they found oil in the coolant.....read some previous posts from drivers with the same symptoms which supports what the indie says: instead of trying to find the problem but unlikely to succeed, they suggest a new engine and cleaning out of the radiators etc. Looking at a total of $17,000.00....is it worth for my '00 996 Convertible with 88 0000 miles and a new transmission or should I have them try to locate and fix the problem? (My wife would rather see the car go, but I am a bit sentimental about this issue, I've never driven anything quite like it.)
At least one Boxster owner found one freeze plug in the head had blown and allowed wholesale mixing of coolant and oil. Found this of course after he removed the engine and did some disassembly.
He removed engine -- to remove heads -- and found the freeze plug problem. He or his mech. fixed that, checked the bearings and some other things and found everything ok. drained the oil change the oil filter and added fresh oil and of course installed the engine into the car and flushed and refilled the cooling system and resurrected the engine and the car.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-28-2009, 10:53 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Let us know where you are located and perhaps someone can recommend a good mechanic near you who can properly diagnose the issue and give you some options.
If you decide to sell the car as is please PM me. Thanks!
If you decide to sell the car as is please PM me. Thanks!
10-28-2009, 11:16 AM
#6
Parts Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
where are you? what car MY and style -
call or contact Jake Raby... $17 you have options.... you owe it to yourself to at least explore those. Sorry about the news
call or contact Jake Raby... $17 you have options.... you owe it to yourself to at least explore those. Sorry about the news
10-28-2009, 11:51 AM
#7
AutoX
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We (the fabulous Dec '99 996 convertible and I) are located in Palo Alto, CA; the car has been serviced for its first 9 years at Carlsen Porsche in Redwood City, CA, more recently at European Auto in Sunnyvale, CA; it was there that the transmission had been replaced in the spring of this year, and I believe they are a knowledgeable and honest outfit.
Thanks for all the advice so far, I will get a second opinion before moving on (and I'll talk to them about the possibility mentioned by Macster). My wife suggested having the car evaluated by Carlsen Porsche since they know its ins-and-outs.....does that make sense or should I bring it to Heyer Performance in Mountain View, CA, an outfit that does only Porsche service?
Jake Raby...is he a rennlist member, and how could I contact him?
Thanks for all the advice so far, I will get a second opinion before moving on (and I'll talk to them about the possibility mentioned by Macster). My wife suggested having the car evaluated by Carlsen Porsche since they know its ins-and-outs.....does that make sense or should I bring it to Heyer Performance in Mountain View, CA, an outfit that does only Porsche service?
Jake Raby...is he a rennlist member, and how could I contact him?
Trending Topics
10-28-2009, 12:20 PM
#8
Race Director
We (the fabulous Dec '99 996 convertible and I) are located in Palo Alto, CA; the car has been serviced for its first 9 years at Carlsen Porsche in Redwood City, CA, more recently at European Auto in Sunnyvale, CA; it was there that the transmission had been replaced in the spring of this year, and I believe they are a knowledgeable and honest outfit.
Thanks for all the advice so far, I will get a second opinion before moving on (and I'll talk to them about the possibility mentioned by Macster). My wife suggested having the car evaluated by Carlsen Porsche since they know its ins-and-outs.....does that make sense or should I bring it to Heyer Performance in Mountain View, CA, an outfit that does only Porsche service?
Jake Raby...is he a rennlist member, and how could I contact him?
Thanks for all the advice so far, I will get a second opinion before moving on (and I'll talk to them about the possibility mentioned by Macster). My wife suggested having the car evaluated by Carlsen Porsche since they know its ins-and-outs.....does that make sense or should I bring it to Heyer Performance in Mountain View, CA, an outfit that does only Porsche service?
Jake Raby...is he a rennlist member, and how could I contact him?
Visit www.flatsixinnovations.com and from there you can get contact info for Jake Raby.
Heyer I think comes highly recommended. Let me speak with a co-worker who knows the various engine rebuilders in the area. He runs a 914 fitted with a 993 in near race tune.
Carlsen might be a good idea.
But before you try Carlsen, call Rector Porsche in Burlingame and ask if you can arrange to visit -- without the car at first -- and speak with Pete (senior mechanic) about your car. Offer to pay a 1/2 hour labor charge. Might be the best $75 you ever spent.
You can send an email to hcontrearas@rectormotors.com (that's Hector Contreras) and he should get back to you shortly. He only checks voice mail once an hour or so but has a email/phone with him at all times..
I've seen several 911 engines in various stages of disassembly/reassembly at Pete's work area when I've been there. He can tear into these engines and put them back together as good as anyone I suspect. (One engine -- which I have pics of -- was in for a failed IMS which because the driver shut off the engine right away didn't take out the engine and as a result the engine was rebuildable.)
Also, look up a guy who posts by the name of txhokie4life. He visits PPBB. He is the person who salvaged/resurrected a Boxster engine that had appeared to suffered a broken water pump but in fact upon further investigation when the water pump turned out to be ok was found to have lost one internal freeze plug. The engine was salvagable.
You need to take your time and do some preliminary work so you know what is the right path for you.
One easy solution, though expensive, is to have a new engine installed by a dealer. You can call around and get quotes -- be sure to note who you talked to, when, and write down all the numbers and get confirmation. Then before you have the work started get the same numbers on a estimate. At least one owner back east reported a dealer underbid other dealers and then tried to up the price afterwards. Because he took these precautions he was able to hold the dealer to its original bid.
You might find a dealer that will make you a nice deal on the engine replacement. Many are hard up for work for their service department cause new cars sales are way down and many owners are holding off on even regular servicing.
You get factory engine, dealer installation. 2 year, 24K mile warranty. (Check on warranty before you go ahead just to be sure.)
Or you may find after talking it over with Pete at Rector that an engine removal so the problem can be clearly identified and an accurate assessment of the engine and its chances for repair made is called for.
You want to avoid even starting the engine and of course having the car flat bedded hither and yon. A trip for my Turbo from Livermore to Fremont cost me approx. $175.
Worth it though once you know where you want the car.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-28-2009, 12:22 PM
#9
Parts Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
no affiliation,
here is Jakes website - he is a member ID = Jake Raby
http://www.flat6innovations.com/
I have heard good things and he might have ideas that you have not thought of....like I said, for this type of money, you owe it to yourself to ask a few questions from people who know these engines. Doesnt mean you will use him, just means you are finding out your options.
GL
here is Jakes website - he is a member ID = Jake Raby
http://www.flat6innovations.com/
I have heard good things and he might have ideas that you have not thought of....like I said, for this type of money, you owe it to yourself to ask a few questions from people who know these engines. Doesnt mean you will use him, just means you are finding out your options.
GL
10-28-2009, 12:59 PM
#10
Cruisin'
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am currently in process of attempting repair of my 99 996 C2 intermix problem. Another user Dharn55 and I have removed engine and tranny from car and found cylinder head crack near #1 spark plug recess. Removed head and had it repair/rewelded - about to start reassembly process. Dharn55 is done and his car is back on the road, I'm not done yet. The head repair and parts is still not cheap, but its significantly less than a new engine.
My advice would be to think about your options. I did not want to spend that kind of money on my car which frankly has limited value, but lots of enjoyment from driving as you know.
Your situation sucks, but you have company. TxHokiefor life also repaired a boxster intermix, and there is a youtube video collection of a guy who completely rebuilt his boxster engine for intermix.
Tim S
My advice would be to think about your options. I did not want to spend that kind of money on my car which frankly has limited value, but lots of enjoyment from driving as you know.
Your situation sucks, but you have company. TxHokiefor life also repaired a boxster intermix, and there is a youtube video collection of a guy who completely rebuilt his boxster engine for intermix.
Tim S
10-28-2009, 02:40 PM
#12
Race Director
10-28-2009, 09:58 PM
#13
Drifting
Hard to justify $17,000+ on a car that may be worth $20,000 or so if you put in the new engine. But don’t give up, there are alternatives.
First, Porsche wants you to think that the only fix is a new (or remanufactured) engine. And most independent mechanics follow this line on thought. Why, because this is an incredibly profitable “fix” for Porsche. Keep in mind that the 3.4 engine that Porsche wants to sell you for $14,000-$16,000 was only $11,040 in September 2008 (from Suncoast or Sunset, I know because I had my intermix then and priced them) and was about $8,000 a year or so before that. And in Sept. 08 the 3.6 was only $8,500 and the 3.6 X51 was only $9,400. Do you really think that Porsche’s cost went up by $4,000-$8,000, or that the 3.4 costs more than a 3.6 or a 3.6 X51? Only the profit Porsche makes on the engines, particularly the 3.4, went up by that much, not the cost. Also remember that Porsche is going to take back your core as part of the deal, then remanufacture it at a cost of a few thousand dollars (maybe it is even $6,000-$8,000) and then sell it again for $14,000+
For years, part of the warranty replacement of engines required that the engine not be torn down to determine the problem. If you tore the engine down they would not accept it as a core. Why, because Porsche did not want the public to know what was happening to the engines or what it took to repair them.
And the labor most Dealers want for an engine swap is way off. In my garage without a lift, etc. I can drop an engine in 4-6 hours, so 8-12 hours for the swap. I bet the dealer wants 15-20 hrs. for the job.
As for independent mechanics, many are really good, but they have been caught up in the thinking/propaganda that Porsche has fostered on not fixing engines. And for years Porsche would not sell them parts or provide training.
However, there are lots of other options. The odds are that the intermix you have was caused by a cracked cylinder head. It is almost always cylinder head 1-3, at cylinder #1, at the inner exhaust valve spring seat. Below are pictures of my cracked head, and Doug Dornbush’s cracked head
Tim Sehorn (sehorntx above) had the same crack. The shop were both Tim and I had our heads fixed, Costa Mesa R&D, has seen many of these cracks. When I first called them about my cracked head, before I told them where the crack was, they said “oh sure, cylinder head 1-3, at the inner exhaust valve seat on cylinder #1, that’s where they always crack.”
Here is a link to a Boxster engine rebuild, head cracked in the same spot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ComO...eature=related
When I was looking at alternatives for the repair of my car I found three used 1-3 heads for sale, and everyone was cracked in the same spot!! (Of course Porsche denies there is any problem with the heads, or says it is caused by owner abuse!)
You may be able to see the crack by removing the sparkplug and tube on cylinder #1, although you may have to remove the cam cover, cams, lifters and lifter frame to see it.
If it is a cracked head the cost of the head repair was about $500 including a valve job. I have also included a picture of the repaired head.
Another $700 or so in parts and 12+ hours in labor and you should be able to fix the cracked head. You can also buy a used cylinder head for $800-$1,000 (make sure it is not cracked) or a new cylinder head lists for about $,2,800, can probably be bought for $2,500-$2,600.
So with a repaired head you should be less than $3,000, or with a new cylinder head less than $5,000.
Or if you want to replace the engine used ones go for $5,000-$8,000, there is a shop in Southern CA that sells rebuilt engines, that last I saw was $8,000, but they were only $7,000 a couple of months ago.
Or the ultimate would be to have Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations build you a motor, a little more than the Porsche remanufactured engine, but a far superior engine, big bore, upgraded parts, cylinders, IMS, rods, pistons, lifters, etc.
The only reason I can think of for anyone to go with a Porsche engine is the warranty, but what a cost.
First, Porsche wants you to think that the only fix is a new (or remanufactured) engine. And most independent mechanics follow this line on thought. Why, because this is an incredibly profitable “fix” for Porsche. Keep in mind that the 3.4 engine that Porsche wants to sell you for $14,000-$16,000 was only $11,040 in September 2008 (from Suncoast or Sunset, I know because I had my intermix then and priced them) and was about $8,000 a year or so before that. And in Sept. 08 the 3.6 was only $8,500 and the 3.6 X51 was only $9,400. Do you really think that Porsche’s cost went up by $4,000-$8,000, or that the 3.4 costs more than a 3.6 or a 3.6 X51? Only the profit Porsche makes on the engines, particularly the 3.4, went up by that much, not the cost. Also remember that Porsche is going to take back your core as part of the deal, then remanufacture it at a cost of a few thousand dollars (maybe it is even $6,000-$8,000) and then sell it again for $14,000+
For years, part of the warranty replacement of engines required that the engine not be torn down to determine the problem. If you tore the engine down they would not accept it as a core. Why, because Porsche did not want the public to know what was happening to the engines or what it took to repair them.
And the labor most Dealers want for an engine swap is way off. In my garage without a lift, etc. I can drop an engine in 4-6 hours, so 8-12 hours for the swap. I bet the dealer wants 15-20 hrs. for the job.
As for independent mechanics, many are really good, but they have been caught up in the thinking/propaganda that Porsche has fostered on not fixing engines. And for years Porsche would not sell them parts or provide training.
However, there are lots of other options. The odds are that the intermix you have was caused by a cracked cylinder head. It is almost always cylinder head 1-3, at cylinder #1, at the inner exhaust valve spring seat. Below are pictures of my cracked head, and Doug Dornbush’s cracked head
Tim Sehorn (sehorntx above) had the same crack. The shop were both Tim and I had our heads fixed, Costa Mesa R&D, has seen many of these cracks. When I first called them about my cracked head, before I told them where the crack was, they said “oh sure, cylinder head 1-3, at the inner exhaust valve seat on cylinder #1, that’s where they always crack.”
Here is a link to a Boxster engine rebuild, head cracked in the same spot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ComO...eature=related
When I was looking at alternatives for the repair of my car I found three used 1-3 heads for sale, and everyone was cracked in the same spot!! (Of course Porsche denies there is any problem with the heads, or says it is caused by owner abuse!)
You may be able to see the crack by removing the sparkplug and tube on cylinder #1, although you may have to remove the cam cover, cams, lifters and lifter frame to see it.
If it is a cracked head the cost of the head repair was about $500 including a valve job. I have also included a picture of the repaired head.
Another $700 or so in parts and 12+ hours in labor and you should be able to fix the cracked head. You can also buy a used cylinder head for $800-$1,000 (make sure it is not cracked) or a new cylinder head lists for about $,2,800, can probably be bought for $2,500-$2,600.
So with a repaired head you should be less than $3,000, or with a new cylinder head less than $5,000.
Or if you want to replace the engine used ones go for $5,000-$8,000, there is a shop in Southern CA that sells rebuilt engines, that last I saw was $8,000, but they were only $7,000 a couple of months ago.
Or the ultimate would be to have Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations build you a motor, a little more than the Porsche remanufactured engine, but a far superior engine, big bore, upgraded parts, cylinders, IMS, rods, pistons, lifters, etc.
The only reason I can think of for anyone to go with a Porsche engine is the warranty, but what a cost.
10-28-2009, 10:12 PM
#14
Parts Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
anyone looking for a good head? There is one for sale local for a fantastic deal.....PM me and I will try and get the details to you - not sure which bank, I did contact the guy, but forgot...
Ed
Ed
