IMS bearing replacement
09-28-2009, 10:25 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
IMS bearing replacement
I was at one of Jake Raby's sites - he has some great M96 engine articles there, like this one on replacing the IMS bearing: http://www.flat6innovations.com/savi...e-ims-retrofit
Just thought people would find it interesting.
Just thought people would find it interesting.
09-28-2009, 11:24 AM
#5
Here's a good right up, best IMS info I've seen. It's LN Engineering, who I think partnered or spearheaded/designed the kit, but Flat6 is part of the writeup too
. I'm definitely doing it retrofit kit ($500-$600) when changing the clutch next. The "best" kit is to send in your IMS and have them put on the super-awesome kit (which costs more, and you need to send in your IMS after a tear down), but I think even the retrifit will give the IMS a much improved life.
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
. I'm definitely doing it retrofit kit ($500-$600) when changing the clutch next. The "best" kit is to send in your IMS and have them put on the super-awesome kit (which costs more, and you need to send in your IMS after a tear down), but I think even the retrifit will give the IMS a much improved life.
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
09-28-2009, 12:01 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Upgraded bearing
1) $ 500-600 for IMS bearing upgrade from LN and upgraded bolt assembly
2) approx. $ 1,000 from a dealer to do the labor due to teardown/All labor, even when clutch mechanism is already out...
2) approx. $ 1,000 from a dealer to do the labor due to teardown/All labor, even when clutch mechanism is already out...
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09-28-2009, 05:02 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
A few clarifications/ explanations:
The IMS procedure and bearing have been a mutual development between my company and LN Engineering, we have been working together on similar projects for over a decade. Charles from LN designed the replacement hybrid silicon nitride bearing and together we completed the procedures of bearing extraction and replacement.
Over time several different methods of bearing extraction have been executed and as we speak a new version of the tooling is being tested that is easier to use and will not require rental hassles. This puller will come with the bearing kit and will allow for much simpler bearing extraction.
When this puller is completed and has been fully tested I will then produce a DVD to supplement the kit that covers bearing extraction and reinsertion as well as all other pertinent aspects of the IMSR procedure. I have held off on producing this until the new tooling is completed as it changes the entire process, for the better.
The IMSR processes can be accomplished for under 1K if you are a DIY Porsche enthusiast, this will cover the parts only for the process along with the current tool rental costs.
If you depend on your local shop to do this work, the going rate is hourly but generally comes in at 3,500-4K and slightly more if the car is a C4 due to aded labor.
I applied the first retrofit bearing and we have done more than anyone else, along with the testing of the entire series of bearings as they have evolved. The very first bearing installed is seeing service in my Boxster while bearings #2 and 3 are also in service in our test cars, including my Wife's Land Speed 996 that she piloted to 149.281 MPH last weekend in the standing mile at Maxton NC.
We have done these processes dozens of times and the procedure is routine for us along with some complications that can be experienced from time to time. Due to this we have a flat rate fee for the procedure, not done by the hour for the various Porsches. This includes a new clutch (trust me, you need one if the car has more than 40K miles) and RMS updates along with the IMSR procedures.
We are working with competent, open minded Porsche shops throughout the world to get this technology into their hands so more engines can be saved. Believe it or not some Porsche Dealerships have installed these IMS bearings.
The technology can be applied as a preventive, or as salvation for engines with impending IMS bearing failures or failures that have not taken the engine out of service completely.
To reduce some confusion:
The IMSR (retrofit) and IMSU (update) are entirely different procedures, applied in entirely different manners.
The IMSR is applied to existing engines before a failure occurs or after a failure has began to occur WITH THE ENGINE ASSEMBLED and still IN THE CAR. This is the process that was overviewed in the link provided by the original poster in this thread. This is the technology that offers the most value to an enthusiast who is concerned with addressing the issue prior to becoming a statistic.
The IMSU is a procedure that modifies the entire IMS for the fitment of more bearings, thus spreading the bearing load. This procedure must be applied during an engine update when the engine is completely disassembled and generally reconstructed with much higher performance components.
The application of the IMSU requires full disassembly of the engine.
When I carry out these procedures I make other strengthening enhancements to the IMS, one of which that locks the bank 4-6 drive sprocket onto the shaft so it can never slip again, resulting in MOF #17. MOF #17 is best illustrated by the pic I have attached, this occurred with an engine that had a perfectly fine IMS bearing that was misdiagnosed by a Porsche dealership as a bearing failure. In this instance the IMS failed.
The IMS procedure and bearing have been a mutual development between my company and LN Engineering, we have been working together on similar projects for over a decade. Charles from LN designed the replacement hybrid silicon nitride bearing and together we completed the procedures of bearing extraction and replacement.
Over time several different methods of bearing extraction have been executed and as we speak a new version of the tooling is being tested that is easier to use and will not require rental hassles. This puller will come with the bearing kit and will allow for much simpler bearing extraction.
When this puller is completed and has been fully tested I will then produce a DVD to supplement the kit that covers bearing extraction and reinsertion as well as all other pertinent aspects of the IMSR procedure. I have held off on producing this until the new tooling is completed as it changes the entire process, for the better.
The IMSR processes can be accomplished for under 1K if you are a DIY Porsche enthusiast, this will cover the parts only for the process along with the current tool rental costs.
If you depend on your local shop to do this work, the going rate is hourly but generally comes in at 3,500-4K and slightly more if the car is a C4 due to aded labor.
I applied the first retrofit bearing and we have done more than anyone else, along with the testing of the entire series of bearings as they have evolved. The very first bearing installed is seeing service in my Boxster while bearings #2 and 3 are also in service in our test cars, including my Wife's Land Speed 996 that she piloted to 149.281 MPH last weekend in the standing mile at Maxton NC.
We have done these processes dozens of times and the procedure is routine for us along with some complications that can be experienced from time to time. Due to this we have a flat rate fee for the procedure, not done by the hour for the various Porsches. This includes a new clutch (trust me, you need one if the car has more than 40K miles) and RMS updates along with the IMSR procedures.
We are working with competent, open minded Porsche shops throughout the world to get this technology into their hands so more engines can be saved. Believe it or not some Porsche Dealerships have installed these IMS bearings.
The technology can be applied as a preventive, or as salvation for engines with impending IMS bearing failures or failures that have not taken the engine out of service completely.
To reduce some confusion:
The IMSR (retrofit) and IMSU (update) are entirely different procedures, applied in entirely different manners.
The IMSR is applied to existing engines before a failure occurs or after a failure has began to occur WITH THE ENGINE ASSEMBLED and still IN THE CAR. This is the process that was overviewed in the link provided by the original poster in this thread. This is the technology that offers the most value to an enthusiast who is concerned with addressing the issue prior to becoming a statistic.
The IMSU is a procedure that modifies the entire IMS for the fitment of more bearings, thus spreading the bearing load. This procedure must be applied during an engine update when the engine is completely disassembled and generally reconstructed with much higher performance components.
The application of the IMSU requires full disassembly of the engine.
When I carry out these procedures I make other strengthening enhancements to the IMS, one of which that locks the bank 4-6 drive sprocket onto the shaft so it can never slip again, resulting in MOF #17. MOF #17 is best illustrated by the pic I have attached, this occurred with an engine that had a perfectly fine IMS bearing that was misdiagnosed by a Porsche dealership as a bearing failure. In this instance the IMS failed.
Last edited by Jake Raby; 01-11-2015 at 11:56 PM.
09-28-2009, 05:32 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
i'm rethinking my strategery and doing the bearing replacement at my shop (Ottos) since my engine is out and the head is at the machine shop.
I hope its now just the cost of bearing and a small labor cost because everything is apart anyway.
I hope its now just the cost of bearing and a small labor cost because everything is apart anyway.
09-28-2009, 05:55 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Due to Rennlist rules I can't discuss prices here. I simply wanted to make an informative post with the details of the two, how they were developed and how they've been applied.
