Why are 996's so cheap?
09-26-2009, 07:29 PM
#46
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The 996s that are pampered, garaged and well taken care of will be just fine.
I've owned many older Porsches, and I for one certainly would not argue that older Porsches were built "better". I am personally only interested in the "classic" 911, the 996 and vaguely the 997, and would not own a 993 or 964. To each his own...
I've owned many older Porsches, and I for one certainly would not argue that older Porsches were built "better". I am personally only interested in the "classic" 911, the 996 and vaguely the 997, and would not own a 993 or 964. To each his own...
09-26-2009, 08:20 PM
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09-27-2009, 05:50 AM
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Franklin229, wow, where did you go to school. I went to CCS is Detroit.
When going through the buying process I drove both 993 and 996 as they were roughly close in price at the time.
In researching the faults of both models I came across the engine port clogging issues of the 993(please forgive my lack of precise terminology, it's been a while). I live in CA with strict smog testing. The ports clog, you fail smog, can't drive car. It seems the issue is with soft valve guides if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong. In research it seems the probability of this happening was very high, between 50-80%. The only countermeasure is an expensive head rebuild.
In 996's the spectre of catastrophic engine fail looms large, noone knows the exact numbers, but I figured, with all of the cars produced, it has to be relatively uncommon. Probably no more than 20%.
I figured the better bet was with the 996 in that scenario.
I drive my 996 everyday. It's perfect for that. I had a coworker buy a 993 C4S the same time I bought my car. He's since sold his car. I still have mine. The word on the street was it was unsuitable for daily use eventually.
Congrats on not having any mechanical faults with your car. That's awesome. I have to believe that is more the exception than the norm.
We have a saying in our studio,...an old car is just an old car. My 996 is @10 yrs old now! I had a loaner Cayman S for a weekend a few months ago, and I have to say it drove better than my car in almost every way possible. It was phenomenal.
When going through the buying process I drove both 993 and 996 as they were roughly close in price at the time.
In researching the faults of both models I came across the engine port clogging issues of the 993(please forgive my lack of precise terminology, it's been a while). I live in CA with strict smog testing. The ports clog, you fail smog, can't drive car. It seems the issue is with soft valve guides if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong. In research it seems the probability of this happening was very high, between 50-80%. The only countermeasure is an expensive head rebuild.
In 996's the spectre of catastrophic engine fail looms large, noone knows the exact numbers, but I figured, with all of the cars produced, it has to be relatively uncommon. Probably no more than 20%.
I figured the better bet was with the 996 in that scenario.
I drive my 996 everyday. It's perfect for that. I had a coworker buy a 993 C4S the same time I bought my car. He's since sold his car. I still have mine. The word on the street was it was unsuitable for daily use eventually.
Congrats on not having any mechanical faults with your car. That's awesome. I have to believe that is more the exception than the norm.
We have a saying in our studio,...an old car is just an old car. My 996 is @10 yrs old now! I had a loaner Cayman S for a weekend a few months ago, and I have to say it drove better than my car in almost every way possible. It was phenomenal.
09-27-2009, 06:53 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Franklin229, wow, where did you go to school. I went to CCS is Detroit.
When going through the buying process I drove both 993 and 996 as they were roughly close in price at the time.
In researching the faults of both models I came across the engine port clogging issues of the 993(please forgive my lack of precise terminology, it's been a while). I live in CA with strict smog testing. The ports clog, you fail smog, can't drive car. It seems the issue is with soft valve guides if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong. In research it seems the probability of this happening was very high, between 50-80%. The only countermeasure is an expensive head rebuild.
In 996's the spectre of catastrophic engine fail looms large, noone knows the exact numbers, but I figured, with all of the cars produced, it has to be relatively uncommon. Probably no more than 20%.
I figured the better bet was with the 996 in that scenario.
I drive my 996 everyday. It's perfect for that. I had a coworker buy a 993 C4S the same time I bought my car. He's since sold his car. I still have mine. The word on the street was it was unsuitable for daily use eventually.
Congrats on not having any mechanical faults with your car. That's awesome. I have to believe that is more the exception than the norm.
We have a saying in our studio,...an old car is just an old car. My 996 is @10 yrs old now! I had a loaner Cayman S for a weekend a few months ago, and I have to say it drove better than my car in almost every way possible. It was phenomenal.
When going through the buying process I drove both 993 and 996 as they were roughly close in price at the time.
In researching the faults of both models I came across the engine port clogging issues of the 993(please forgive my lack of precise terminology, it's been a while). I live in CA with strict smog testing. The ports clog, you fail smog, can't drive car. It seems the issue is with soft valve guides if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong. In research it seems the probability of this happening was very high, between 50-80%. The only countermeasure is an expensive head rebuild.
In 996's the spectre of catastrophic engine fail looms large, noone knows the exact numbers, but I figured, with all of the cars produced, it has to be relatively uncommon. Probably no more than 20%.
I figured the better bet was with the 996 in that scenario.
I drive my 996 everyday. It's perfect for that. I had a coworker buy a 993 C4S the same time I bought my car. He's since sold his car. I still have mine. The word on the street was it was unsuitable for daily use eventually.
Congrats on not having any mechanical faults with your car. That's awesome. I have to believe that is more the exception than the norm.
We have a saying in our studio,...an old car is just an old car. My 996 is @10 yrs old now! I had a loaner Cayman S for a weekend a few months ago, and I have to say it drove better than my car in almost every way possible. It was phenomenal.
09-27-2009, 11:20 AM
#50
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J-No, first, let me congratulate you on your posts. We need more of this on these board. Your opinions are solidly grounded in logic and backed up appropriately. Most of the rest argue in circles using terms and opinions like "better" or "worse" without first defining what those terms mean in context, so thanks.
As far as pricing goes, it all falls downhill from the auctions. The reality is: a MK1 996 is selling for $10-$15k at auction. (Yes, an '01 996 is $15k right now) That's a verifiable number that is a good indicator of demand and street price. Those of you who want $20K plus for a '99 are bucking the trend. I think the reasons are a bit of everything previously mentioned and a bit more, but the end result is people don't want these cars in the same way they want other models. A good case study might be the 928 where a shift in design direction made the car a tough sell a few years later. Sound a bit like the 996?
As far as pricing goes, it all falls downhill from the auctions. The reality is: a MK1 996 is selling for $10-$15k at auction. (Yes, an '01 996 is $15k right now) That's a verifiable number that is a good indicator of demand and street price. Those of you who want $20K plus for a '99 are bucking the trend. I think the reasons are a bit of everything previously mentioned and a bit more, but the end result is people don't want these cars in the same way they want other models. A good case study might be the 928 where a shift in design direction made the car a tough sell a few years later. Sound a bit like the 996?
09-27-2009, 04:18 PM
#51
Race Car
If anyone claims the older 911's are built better than the 996, they must have limited knowledge of these cars IMO.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I would take the entire suspension/steering system from a 996 over any previous 911 just like I would take the engine externals of an older 911 over a 996.
Carpet in the 996 is far superior to previous years.
Sheetmetal is a toss up.
Interior IMO is nicer in the 996 except the dash, the older ones were friggin' robust!
Layout of wiring and pedal assembly under the dash of a 996 is better than older ones. I almost crashed at >120 MPH due to the design of the older pedal assemblies "over Engineering"
They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I would take the entire suspension/steering system from a 996 over any previous 911 just like I would take the engine externals of an older 911 over a 996.
Carpet in the 996 is far superior to previous years.
Sheetmetal is a toss up.
Interior IMO is nicer in the 996 except the dash, the older ones were friggin' robust!
Layout of wiring and pedal assembly under the dash of a 996 is better than older ones. I almost crashed at >120 MPH due to the design of the older pedal assemblies "over Engineering"
09-27-2009, 05:23 PM
#52
If anyone claims the older 911's are built better than the 996, they must have limited knowledge of these cars IMO.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I would take the entire suspension/steering system from a 996 over any previous 911 just like I would take the engine externals of an older 911 over a 996.
Carpet in the 996 is far superior to previous years.
Sheetmetal is a toss up.
Interior IMO is nicer in the 996 except the dash, the older ones were friggin' robust!
Layout of wiring and pedal assembly under the dash of a 996 is better than older ones. I almost crashed at >120 MPH due to the design of the older pedal assemblies "over Engineering"
They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I would take the entire suspension/steering system from a 996 over any previous 911 just like I would take the engine externals of an older 911 over a 996.
Carpet in the 996 is far superior to previous years.
Sheetmetal is a toss up.
Interior IMO is nicer in the 996 except the dash, the older ones were friggin' robust!
Layout of wiring and pedal assembly under the dash of a 996 is better than older ones. I almost crashed at >120 MPH due to the design of the older pedal assemblies "over Engineering"
09-28-2009, 04:07 AM
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Thanks for the compliment salayc! I'm really an artist at heart, but having gone through the feasibility process a few times (making a sketch(what I do) into a real car(what the engineers do)) and having to explain/rationalize my designs to the engineers I've been forced to learn a little logic over the years.
Franklin229! Are you still designing? The interior of a 993 is more spacious than a Cayman?...I guess you have the back seat. Technically, I think the 993 is a better looking car. The surfacing/ highlighting of the 993 is perfect. The 996 doors, the highlights are just atrocious. According to a conversation I had at a beach party with the exterior designer of the Cayman, he said BMW did the stampings(made the tools maybe?) for the 996 ext, and both companies blame the other for the poor stampings.
As a designer I love that the 996 is the first all new 911 since the 60's. The exterior shape is just so new and unusual for Porsche, so full of vitality. I'm sure the 997 is a better car, but man, did they take a giant step back into the old. The surfacing is almost frumpy.
To get back on topic, I am a little dissapointed in my resale value trajectory. A lot of it is supply and demand I think. The 993 market definitely has a collectors slant to it, almost a closed market, Porsche's for Porsche people only. The 996 is still more of mass consumer car market at the moment. Maybe after 10 yrs or so, and a sizeable portion of the 996 population is destroyed the remaining good cars will stand out and stabilize the market. I can only hope.
Franklin229! Are you still designing? The interior of a 993 is more spacious than a Cayman?...I guess you have the back seat. Technically, I think the 993 is a better looking car. The surfacing/ highlighting of the 993 is perfect. The 996 doors, the highlights are just atrocious. According to a conversation I had at a beach party with the exterior designer of the Cayman, he said BMW did the stampings(made the tools maybe?) for the 996 ext, and both companies blame the other for the poor stampings.
As a designer I love that the 996 is the first all new 911 since the 60's. The exterior shape is just so new and unusual for Porsche, so full of vitality. I'm sure the 997 is a better car, but man, did they take a giant step back into the old. The surfacing is almost frumpy.
To get back on topic, I am a little dissapointed in my resale value trajectory. A lot of it is supply and demand I think. The 993 market definitely has a collectors slant to it, almost a closed market, Porsche's for Porsche people only. The 996 is still more of mass consumer car market at the moment. Maybe after 10 yrs or so, and a sizeable portion of the 996 population is destroyed the remaining good cars will stand out and stabilize the market. I can only hope.
09-28-2009, 09:35 AM
#55
Three Wheelin'
I find thsi very funny talk about why the 996 is so cheap. Well is is due to the percieved isssues of the RMS etc and then on top of that the 996 is really a boring looking car in the base form. Plus there prices are down because noone wants them for these reasons. Ask anyone and if they tell you they are dying for a 996 [unch him.
the 993 and 964 are just as fast have a/c, heat and all the other features. Ok no memory seats.
when you drive your 996 does anyone even look at the car? I know in my 964 I get looks thumb ups people screaming that they love my car. That is why my value is higher
the 993 and 964 are just as fast have a/c, heat and all the other features. Ok no memory seats.
when you drive your 996 does anyone even look at the car? I know in my 964 I get looks thumb ups people screaming that they love my car. That is why my value is higher
09-28-2009, 10:17 AM
#56
Wellcraft, when you come to the forum with the intent to insult all the 996 owners, perhaps you should consider making your points in a manner that don't make you sound like a twelve year old. Did you type your post on your phone?
09-28-2009, 10:26 AM
#57
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09-28-2009, 10:44 AM
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I find thsi very funny talk about why the 996 is so cheap. Well is is due to the percieved isssues of the RMS etc and then on top of that the 996 is really a boring looking car in the base form. Plus there prices are down because noone wants them for these reasons. Ask anyone and if they tell you they are dying for a 996 [unch him.
the 993 and 964 are just as fast have a/c, heat and all the other features. Ok no memory seats.
when you drive your 996 does anyone even look at the car? I know in my 964 I get looks thumb ups people screaming that they love my car. That is why my value is higher
the 993 and 964 are just as fast have a/c, heat and all the other features. Ok no memory seats.
when you drive your 996 does anyone even look at the car? I know in my 964 I get looks thumb ups people screaming that they love my car. That is why my value is higher
09-28-2009, 10:50 AM
#59
Race Car
Yeah, they looked at it - mainly because they couldn't believe it was out of the garage and I was actually driving it!! 
But seriously, have a peek at this 4S - do you think anyone looked at this car? Did you take just a quick look, Champ??
But seriously, have a peek at this 4S - do you think anyone looked at this car? Did you take just a quick look, Champ??
09-28-2009, 10:52 AM
#60
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yea baby - when I drive I get people screaming too, not sure what they are screaming though
sometimes I back up and ask them...I liked one that screamed "slow down!" when I was going 20 in a 25 zone ? actually that happened twice now ?
I think the 996 just looks SO much faster than the 993
hahahhahahahha!!
