question about x51 oil pan and baffles
07-22-2009, 05:48 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
I have seen several 996s, oil pressure dropping by 1-2 bar on the factory gauge in long right hand sweepers, and it is a quick drop, comes back as the car straightens out. It does not go below 1.5 BAR or so. I am curious what this means. Oil pick up partially dry? If so, does this mean some bearings ever go dry, or just lower overall pressure?
HOWEVER
I don't see the "drop" at normal engine temperatures... only toward end of session when temps are higher and oil is thinner and sloshes around more.... I even have the X51 pan installed ... on my older engine I didn't have the x51 pan installed and saw even lower pressures 2-1.5 in that same corner... so its definitely a form of momentary starvation of some sort
07-22-2009, 07:10 PM
#47
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Very cool, thanks for sharing. How much did the X51 pan help by itself? Did that engine have some oiling related issue that caused you to switch?
I have not paid attention temperature vs. the sudden pressure 'drop', I'll be more cognizant in the future -though my interest is mostly academic at this point, I think I want to move to a GT3...
I have not paid attention temperature vs. the sudden pressure 'drop', I'll be more cognizant in the future -though my interest is mostly academic at this point, I think I want to move to a GT3...
07-22-2009, 07:34 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Didn't you mean long "left" handers?
The problem is well documented and has to do with the M96 engine only have 2 oil scavenge pickups. The left side pickup is at the front of engine (towards front of car) and the right side pickup is at the rear of the engine.
Under heavy breaking followed by a long high G left hander, oil collects in the right front cylinder head instead of being returned to the oil sump.. Sump runs low on oil, pickup tube sucks air, oil pressure drops, crank bearings see little fresh oil eventually you throw a rod.
Happened to me.
The problem is well documented and has to do with the M96 engine only have 2 oil scavenge pickups. The left side pickup is at the front of engine (towards front of car) and the right side pickup is at the rear of the engine.
Under heavy breaking followed by a long high G left hander, oil collects in the right front cylinder head instead of being returned to the oil sump.. Sump runs low on oil, pickup tube sucks air, oil pressure drops, crank bearings see little fresh oil eventually you throw a rod.
Happened to me.
07-22-2009, 07:41 PM
#49
Well poo. I was under the impression that it was also right handers. All of the serious 996 folks here have most problems (including smoke screens) when running clockwise with mostly right handers...
Heh, good thing I have a GT3 now...
-td
Heh, good thing I have a GT3 now...
-td
07-22-2009, 08:15 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Very cool, thanks for sharing. How much did the X51 pan help by itself? Did that engine have some oiling related issue that caused you to switch?
I have not paid attention temperature vs. the sudden pressure 'drop', I'll be more cognizant in the future -though my interest is mostly academic at this point, I think I want to move to a GT3...
I have not paid attention temperature vs. the sudden pressure 'drop', I'll be more cognizant in the future -though my interest is mostly academic at this point, I think I want to move to a GT3...
as for oil temperature... a new oil cooler is needed... the stock one sucks... or perhaps a 3rd center radiator will keep overall temperature down and oil pressure up as it won't allow it to get hot and thin...
07-22-2009, 08:21 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Didn't you mean long "left" handers?
The problem is well documented and has to do with the M96 engine only have 2 oil scavenge pickups. The left side pickup is at the front of engine (towards front of car) and the right side pickup is at the rear of the engine.
Under heavy breaking followed by a long high G left hander, oil collects in the right front cylinder head instead of being returned to the oil sump.. Sump runs low on oil, pickup tube sucks air, oil pressure drops, crank bearings see little fresh oil eventually you throw a rod.
Happened to me.
The problem is well documented and has to do with the M96 engine only have 2 oil scavenge pickups. The left side pickup is at the front of engine (towards front of car) and the right side pickup is at the rear of the engine.
Under heavy breaking followed by a long high G left hander, oil collects in the right front cylinder head instead of being returned to the oil sump.. Sump runs low on oil, pickup tube sucks air, oil pressure drops, crank bearings see little fresh oil eventually you throw a rod.
Happened to me.
at mosport corner 5b... its very tight right hander and then you accelerate down a hill and then up and TO THE LEFT... the drop occurs at the bottom of the hill right after you have start going up and left... so you are right... also in corner 3... very extended continuous right hander... I get 3 bar after 20-30 min... 4 bar in first 10 minutes at normal temps...
what kind of BAR were you seeing before you threw a rod..?
07-22-2009, 08:28 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
The right hander thing and smoke screen only has to do with the air oil separator. Nothing to do with oil pressure. Surely Jake Raby will chime in and school all of us 
lol
Guys.. anyone recall the factory motorsport oiling upgrade that adds a dual stage oil scavenge pump to the right cylinder head to remedy this situation? Chads996 did a thorough writeup here when he upgraded his car last year.
lolGuys.. anyone recall the factory motorsport oiling upgrade that adds a dual stage oil scavenge pump to the right cylinder head to remedy this situation? Chads996 did a thorough writeup here when he upgraded his car last year.
07-22-2009, 11:53 PM
#54
The right hander thing and smoke screen only has to do with the air oil separator. Nothing to do with oil pressure. Surely Jake Raby will chime in and school all of us lol
Guys.. anyone recall the factory motorsport oiling upgrade that adds a dual stage oil scavenge pump to the right cylinder head to remedy this situation? Chads996 did a thorough writeup here when he upgraded his car last year.
lolGuys.. anyone recall the factory motorsport oiling upgrade that adds a dual stage oil scavenge pump to the right cylinder head to remedy this situation? Chads996 did a thorough writeup here when he upgraded his car last year.
yes, the valve cover needed to be machined so that an external oil pipe drains the trapped oil in the heads back to a new scavenge pump that have an extra inlet to accommodate the external oil return pipe.... it is part of the x51 oiling kit. Maybe one of the 40th Ann guys can take a pic of it.
09-03-2009, 04:55 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
Sorry to be late to the X51 baffle party. A a couple of questions:
Objective question:
Is there any functional difference between the X51 baffle and the one Patrick Motorsports sells?
http://patrickmotorsports.com/part/1630/
Subjective question:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit = peace of mind or overkill?
Subjective question II:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit + GT3 oil pump = get a GT3 already?
Dave- did you install your baffle already- notice anything last time out?
Objective question:
Is there any functional difference between the X51 baffle and the one Patrick Motorsports sells?
http://patrickmotorsports.com/part/1630/
Subjective question:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit = peace of mind or overkill?
Subjective question II:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit + GT3 oil pump = get a GT3 already?
Dave- did you install your baffle already- notice anything last time out?
09-03-2009, 05:24 PM
#58
One concern I have is the plastic baffle in the stock pan.
If you watch Jake's installation video for his pan gasket, he finds a broken plastic tab on the stock pan. I'm sure I'm just being paranoid, but I like the metal in the x51 better.
If you watch Jake's installation video for his pan gasket, he finds a broken plastic tab on the stock pan. I'm sure I'm just being paranoid, but I like the metal in the x51 better.
09-03-2009, 05:38 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
I can't see any difference with that baffle and the x51 model. I doubt that they invented a new one.
My 2 cents on your 2 options... For utmost peace of mind get the Motorsports Oiling Kit ~$1K for parts plus some more for the install.
The first option you have isn't bad insurance. The 2nd one I didn't even think was possible with the GT3 Oil pump? Explain more on that one if you can.
-Paul
My 2 cents on your 2 options... For utmost peace of mind get the Motorsports Oiling Kit ~$1K for parts plus some more for the install.
The first option you have isn't bad insurance. The 2nd one I didn't even think was possible with the GT3 Oil pump? Explain more on that one if you can.
-Paul
Sorry to be late to the X51 baffle party. A a couple of questions:
Objective question:
Is there any functional difference between the X51 baffle and the one Patrick Motorsports sells?
http://patrickmotorsports.com/part/1630/
Subjective question:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit = peace of mind or overkill?
Subjective question II:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit + GT3 oil pump = get a GT3 already?
Dave- did you install your baffle already- notice anything last time out?
Objective question:
Is there any functional difference between the X51 baffle and the one Patrick Motorsports sells?
http://patrickmotorsports.com/part/1630/
Subjective question:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit = peace of mind or overkill?
Subjective question II:
X51 + accumsump + deep sump kit + GT3 oil pump = get a GT3 already?
Dave- did you install your baffle already- notice anything last time out?
09-03-2009, 08:23 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
I can't explain the GT3 idea other than its going on my 3.8 and probably should have some time ago.
Ask me why another time.
Probably a stupid question will it even work in a wet sump car like the 996?
I know on the 964 the case needs minor trimming.
Ask me why another time.
Probably a stupid question will it even work in a wet sump car like the 996?
I know on the 964 the case needs minor trimming.