question about x51 oil pan and baffles
07-21-2009, 06:23 PM
#32
Ordered from Suncoast and will install this weekend. Have a track event coming up in two weeks, so I want to keep doing mods to my car that will protect the longivity of the motor. Next up is the IMS / RMS upgrades when I have to replace the clutch / flywheel.
Last edited by rob76turbo; 07-21-2009 at 06:24 PM. Reason: added info
07-21-2009, 06:27 PM
#33
dont forget to order the liquid gasket.
07-21-2009, 08:37 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
So if you go with both the X51 and the LN or BK deep sump kit do you have to extend the "windows" on the metal X51 baffle too? Jake, have you seen this combo on a car?
The ultimate solution for this issue is an accusump kit and I'll be testing our version for the 996 in a couple of weeks at a track event myself in my 99 test vehicle.. The issue is mounting the unit anywhere except in the cockpit..
More later. We are fighting starvation issues with a vengeance and with the insane power we are getting from the updated and prepped engines its becoming even more of an issue with higher corner speeds being a possibility..
07-21-2009, 08:49 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
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I can't believe it has taken this long and so, so many blown motors for someone to go in this direction. Looking forward to test results.
07-21-2009, 10:42 PM
#37
Drifting
If you don't mind do a DIY picture(s) and report back... I will likely do this in the coming weeks prior to my next track event..
07-22-2009, 12:03 AM
#39
Three Wheelin'
the other thing to note with oil pressure drop is oil temperature and engine temperature... as oil temp goes up... the natural pressure drops... so say 4 bar @ 3000 rpm is normal pressure... you will find as your temp goes up and up you won't be getting exactly 4 bar @ 3000 rpm.... so I think the heat exchanger on these cars doesn't do an adequate job in cooling down the oil.... I wonder if we can get a heavy duty oil cooler that will keep oil temperatures cooler than what the normal engine comes with...
07-22-2009, 11:48 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
I wonder if we can get a heavy duty oil cooler that will keep oil temperatures cooler than what the normal engine comes with...
07-22-2009, 12:08 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
that's awesome... I find at the track this is the biggest problem with these cars.... regardless of the weight of oil you use... the oil temp will go to a point where the oil pressure is compromised the longer you are into your session... I have the "fan" mod on my radiators and this keeps temps down significantly (not as effective as a 3rd radiator but does a very good job) but oil pressure still below what it should be @ end of session...
pressure @ corners @ mosport drop to 3 bar well into my session (20 min) but at normal engine temperature stay consistently @ 4bar (safe)... so rising temps means a thinner oil and lower oil pressure...
your kit will be an engine saver.... how does this kit work Jake? is it always on or does it start cooling when a certain temperature is reached... ?
pressure @ corners @ mosport drop to 3 bar well into my session (20 min) but at normal engine temperature stay consistently @ 4bar (safe)... so rising temps means a thinner oil and lower oil pressure...
your kit will be an engine saver.... how does this kit work Jake? is it always on or does it start cooling when a certain temperature is reached... ?
07-22-2009, 03:54 PM
#43
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It is my personal opinion that oil temperatures or other oiling issues are NOT big problem with the M96 on track. I run without one fan in the front -and often with the A/C on- and do not see the coolant temperature rising past 190 or so on the factory gauge. This leads me to believe oil temperatures stay in check also, though I don't have an oil temp gauge.
Likewise my oil pressure does not drop noticeably between my first 5 minutes on track, and near the end of an hour session. What does worry me is that on some longer sweepers I see the oil pressure dropping (street tires but modified suspension) by a couple of BARs. I don't know that this is a cause for concern, I don't know what exactly it means to have lower oil pressure in a turn, is the pick up running partially dry? If so, does this then mean that some bearings go dry, or just that the system pressure drops. If it's the latter, I have no problem with having 2 BAR at 4000rpm for example.
For full disclosure, my car has a remanufactured motor, uses absolutely no oil through several days on track, or between oil changes. This is the first car I've ever owned (including brand new cars and full rebuilds and engines with hundreds of hours on them) that uses no oil what so ever, by the way.
Likewise my oil pressure does not drop noticeably between my first 5 minutes on track, and near the end of an hour session. What does worry me is that on some longer sweepers I see the oil pressure dropping (street tires but modified suspension) by a couple of BARs. I don't know that this is a cause for concern, I don't know what exactly it means to have lower oil pressure in a turn, is the pick up running partially dry? If so, does this then mean that some bearings go dry, or just that the system pressure drops. If it's the latter, I have no problem with having 2 BAR at 4000rpm for example.
For full disclosure, my car has a remanufactured motor, uses absolutely no oil through several days on track, or between oil changes. This is the first car I've ever owned (including brand new cars and full rebuilds and engines with hundreds of hours on them) that uses no oil what so ever, by the way.
07-22-2009, 04:02 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
It is my personal opinion that oil temperatures or other oiling issues are NOT big problem with the M96 on track. I run without one fan in the front -and often with the A/C on- and do not see the coolant temperature rising past 190 or so on the factory gauge. This leads me to believe oil temperatures stay in check also, though I don't have an oil temp gauge.
Likewise my oil pressure does not drop noticeably between my first 5 minutes on track, and near the end of an hour session. What does worry me is that on some longer sweepers I see the oil pressure dropping (street tires but modified suspension) by a couple of BARs. I don't know that this is a cause for concern, I don't know what exactly it means to have lower oil pressure in a turn, is the pick up running partially dry? If so, does this then mean that some bearings go dry, or just that the system pressure drops. If it's the latter, I have no problem with having 2 BAR at 4000rpm for example.
For full disclosure, my car has a remanufactured motor, uses absolutely no oil through several days on track, or between oil changes. This is the first car I've ever owned (including brand new cars and full rebuilds and engines with hundreds of hours on them) that uses no oil what so ever, by the way.
Likewise my oil pressure does not drop noticeably between my first 5 minutes on track, and near the end of an hour session. What does worry me is that on some longer sweepers I see the oil pressure dropping (street tires but modified suspension) by a couple of BARs. I don't know that this is a cause for concern, I don't know what exactly it means to have lower oil pressure in a turn, is the pick up running partially dry? If so, does this then mean that some bearings go dry, or just that the system pressure drops. If it's the latter, I have no problem with having 2 BAR at 4000rpm for example.
For full disclosure, my car has a remanufactured motor, uses absolutely no oil through several days on track, or between oil changes. This is the first car I've ever owned (including brand new cars and full rebuilds and engines with hundreds of hours on them) that uses no oil what so ever, by the way.
what track are you running and how long are your session for.... do you shift at redline? or 6000 rpm...
07-22-2009, 05:29 PM
#45
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I will try to be more clear, I have no issues with my 996, my oil pressure is not 2 BAR at 4000 rpm. However my 944 turbos generally ran lower pressures than my current 996 does, including one with a more worn motor that did see 2 BAR at 4000 rpm. Many track days and no issues w/that motor. This leads me to believe that a set number is not necessarily "too low", but I'm curious on this topic, and I'm finding it hard to get information, or even educated opinions.
I have seen several 996s, oil pressure dropping by 1-2 bar on the factory gauge in long right hand sweepers, and it is a quick drop, comes back as the car straightens out. It does not go below 1.5 BAR or so. I am curious what this means. Oil pick up partially dry? If so, does this mean some bearings ever go dry, or just lower overall pressure? Latter is not a cause for concern, where as the former is, more so than an absolute number on the gauge, in my opinion.
I've ran quite a few tracks, (CMP, VIR, Laguna Seca, NJMP, Rockingham, Watkins Glen, so forth). Length of sessions vary from group to group, some give 90 mins at a time (last weekend), some only do 20-25 mins -the week before. I think that's irrelevant though, as my concern is oil pressure under cornering, not running slightly lower -but consistent- pressure due to heat build up. Anyway, some tracks are better than others, but this issue is not track specific. Just to answer your question, I don't have a set rpm where I shift. I just posted this video from 4 days ago elsewhere on this forum, it clearly shows the tach for shift points if you're curious. I don't have one showing the oil pressure gauge unfortunately.
I have seen several 996s, oil pressure dropping by 1-2 bar on the factory gauge in long right hand sweepers, and it is a quick drop, comes back as the car straightens out. It does not go below 1.5 BAR or so. I am curious what this means. Oil pick up partially dry? If so, does this mean some bearings ever go dry, or just lower overall pressure? Latter is not a cause for concern, where as the former is, more so than an absolute number on the gauge, in my opinion.
I've ran quite a few tracks, (CMP, VIR, Laguna Seca, NJMP, Rockingham, Watkins Glen, so forth). Length of sessions vary from group to group, some give 90 mins at a time (last weekend), some only do 20-25 mins -the week before. I think that's irrelevant though, as my concern is oil pressure under cornering, not running slightly lower -but consistent- pressure due to heat build up. Anyway, some tracks are better than others, but this issue is not track specific. Just to answer your question, I don't have a set rpm where I shift. I just posted this video from 4 days ago elsewhere on this forum, it clearly shows the tach for shift points if you're curious. I don't have one showing the oil pressure gauge unfortunately.