How many 996's needed a new engine?
12-16-2008, 02:33 PM
#121
There is a wealth of information out there if you search for it. Nothing wrong with asking, but since there are "thousands of threads" be prepared for a little ribbing here for asking the same question again.
Well, I suppose it is ok to have "thousands of threads" plus one more...
-td
12-16-2008, 04:23 PM
#122
Nordschleife Master
And they so often do. That's what happens when you have blinders on.
All I ask for is something that will support these extreme categorizations. But yet NOBODY can do that. Instead they point to those that have "seen" an engine grenade, "heard" of an engine grenade, "read" about an engine grenade, etc, etc, etc..
I won't say that the M96 is bulletproof but if it's so damn bad, then why aren't more engines stacked up in shops en masse?
+100000000
12-16-2008, 05:58 PM
#123
Three Wheelin'
12-16-2008, 06:35 PM
#125
Burning Brakes
12-16-2008, 06:49 PM
#126
Burning Brakes
Outside of Porsche themselves, who's in a better position to know about M96 engine failures, than a Porsche engine shop?
As far as I can tell, Flat-6 Performance shared his shops numbers with the forum, and at no time tried to extrapolate them to the M96 community as a whole.
It's the self appointed Police that get all hot and bothered about statistical significance to the community at large.
At what point did this forum become a place where a Porsche specialist, with years of experience with the cars we all own, has to defend himself for providing fellow forum users with useful information and perspective?
As far as I can tell, Flat-6 Performance shared his shops numbers with the forum, and at no time tried to extrapolate them to the M96 community as a whole.
It's the self appointed Police that get all hot and bothered about statistical significance to the community at large.
At what point did this forum become a place where a Porsche specialist, with years of experience with the cars we all own, has to defend himself for providing fellow forum users with useful information and perspective?
Although shop owners take offense at this: seeing only the cars in their shop may qualify them as experts on repair and causes of failures, but that doesn't make them qualified to judge failure rates. There is an argument to be made that they are less qualified.
The information on failure causes is interesting and valuable; the endless speculation on failure rates does every 996 owner harm.
In summary:
every engine can fail.
996 engines can fail too.
996 engines may fail more often than some other engines do.
some people know some of the reasons the 996 engine can fail.
few people can put the 996 back together after failure.
none of us know how many or how often these failures occur.
I am working on a haiku format for this.
12-16-2008, 07:23 PM
#127
Nordschleife Master
The shop sees only the broken ones right?
Although shop owners take offense at this: seeing only the cars in their shop may qualify them as experts on repair and causes of failures, but that doesn't make them qualified to judge failure rates. There is an argument to be made that they are less qualified.
Although shop owners take offense at this: seeing only the cars in their shop may qualify them as experts on repair and causes of failures, but that doesn't make them qualified to judge failure rates. There is an argument to be made that they are less qualified.
Good One!
12-16-2008, 07:57 PM
#128
Team Owner
Put me down as getting tired of these tiring threads. If it matters, the magic smoke came out of my first 996 engine at slightly less than 43k miles.
I agree that nobody here knows the statistics of anything but how many of these threads there are. Go out and drive your cars or something.
I agree that nobody here knows the statistics of anything but how many of these threads there are. Go out and drive your cars or something.
12-16-2008, 07:58 PM
#129
Burning Brakes
The shop sees only the broken ones right?
Although shop owners take offense at this: seeing only the cars in their shop may qualify them as experts on repair and causes of failures, but that doesn't make them qualified to judge failure rates. There is an argument to be made that they are less qualified.
The information on failure causes is interesting and valuable; the endless speculation on failure rates does every 996 owner harm.
In summary:
every engine can fail.
996 engines can fail too.
996 engines may fail more often than some other engines do.
some people know some of the reasons the 996 engine can fail.
few people can put the 996 back together after failure.
none of us know how many or how often these failures occur.
I am working on a haiku format for this.
Although shop owners take offense at this: seeing only the cars in their shop may qualify them as experts on repair and causes of failures, but that doesn't make them qualified to judge failure rates. There is an argument to be made that they are less qualified.
The information on failure causes is interesting and valuable; the endless speculation on failure rates does every 996 owner harm.
In summary:
every engine can fail.
996 engines can fail too.
996 engines may fail more often than some other engines do.
some people know some of the reasons the 996 engine can fail.
few people can put the 996 back together after failure.
none of us know how many or how often these failures occur.
I am working on a haiku format for this.
Lastly, the extent of your incorrect suppositions of our business (let's include any independent Porsche facility who also provides preventative maintenance to cars in perfect working order) is frankly why you should stick to haiku's and hyperbole.
12-16-2008, 08:47 PM
#130
Nordschleife Master
I guess I'll go back to drinking my kool-aid of science and mathematics while you continue to preach anecdote and qualitative inquiry.
12-16-2008, 09:04 PM
#131
Nordschleife Master
Here's the funny thing about the opinions of any shop.
Unless a particular maintenance shop has the business of the vast majority of Porsches within a region, then any claims of experience only apply to the that small subset of cars that they see and their particular clientele.
In an area like San Diego I would think that there are a lot of Porsches in need of maintenance, but in order for any particular claims to be applied to the general Porsche population, then the particular shop in question must not only represent all Porsche demographics within a region, but also represent a significant percentage of owners in that region (a statistically significant sampling of the population at least). If that is the case, then the shop in question can claim experience for a region, but not globally.
Bearing in mind that there are probably lots of Porsche in San Diego, then if one particular shop has most of that business, then they could in fact make a statistically valid statement for that region. HOWEVER, I sincerely doubt that San Diego is statistically representative of the global Porsche ownership. So, at best, a particular shop owner may make claims for the experiences of their particular business, but those claims may not be worth a hill of beans in the general population. It could only mean that the clientele in question are or are not more abusive/demanding of their cars (didn't you mention that you serve the track jockey, tuner set?) than the general population of owners.
Interesting, no?
Unless a particular maintenance shop has the business of the vast majority of Porsches within a region, then any claims of experience only apply to the that small subset of cars that they see and their particular clientele.
In an area like San Diego I would think that there are a lot of Porsches in need of maintenance, but in order for any particular claims to be applied to the general Porsche population, then the particular shop in question must not only represent all Porsche demographics within a region, but also represent a significant percentage of owners in that region (a statistically significant sampling of the population at least). If that is the case, then the shop in question can claim experience for a region, but not globally.
Bearing in mind that there are probably lots of Porsche in San Diego, then if one particular shop has most of that business, then they could in fact make a statistically valid statement for that region. HOWEVER, I sincerely doubt that San Diego is statistically representative of the global Porsche ownership. So, at best, a particular shop owner may make claims for the experiences of their particular business, but those claims may not be worth a hill of beans in the general population. It could only mean that the clientele in question are or are not more abusive/demanding of their cars (didn't you mention that you serve the track jockey, tuner set?) than the general population of owners.
Interesting, no?
