How many 996's needed a new engine?
12-16-2008, 10:50 AM
#106
Drifting
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12-16-2008, 11:10 AM
#107
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Being a super-lurker (planning to purchase an early 996 this spring) I have gathered the following:
-Early 996’s (MY99 – 01) are a super bargain (0-60 4.9 sec, 174 mph v-max, chassis feedback, engine noise, style, child backseat, etc.)
-Engine failure is a strong probability, seemingly especially with low mileage examples
-Although super-sucky, engine failure cost is inexpensive relative to the original MSRP of the car
-Aside from the lurking engine failure, 996 can serve as a daily driver, needing minimal maintenance
-911 eat tires once a year (12-15K average mileage) on the rears, and every two years for the fronts
From my rennlist experience, I will be looking for an early 996 with 50,000 plus miles on it, run any good examples through a PPI, and check the VIN on the engine to see if I will get lucky with an already replaced example.
-Early 996’s (MY99 – 01) are a super bargain (0-60 4.9 sec, 174 mph v-max, chassis feedback, engine noise, style, child backseat, etc.)
-Engine failure is a strong probability, seemingly especially with low mileage examples
-Although super-sucky, engine failure cost is inexpensive relative to the original MSRP of the car
-Aside from the lurking engine failure, 996 can serve as a daily driver, needing minimal maintenance
-911 eat tires once a year (12-15K average mileage) on the rears, and every two years for the fronts
From my rennlist experience, I will be looking for an early 996 with 50,000 plus miles on it, run any good examples through a PPI, and check the VIN on the engine to see if I will get lucky with an already replaced example.
With a little searching, you'll probably be able to find a car that has a replacement engine. In my mind, that's a bonus!
12-16-2008, 11:15 AM
#108
Drifting
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Your overbearing and supercilious way in this subject matter speaks volumes Dell - you always use the same bum-rush on people who have relevant experience to share, and clearly more experience than you, or I'd wager, any other of the 'No failure Posts Police' in this post.
12-16-2008, 11:33 AM
#109
Rennlist Member
Van, well said. I think the M96 had evolved about as far as it is going to evolve and my guess is that the current R&D is on the next gen motor.
The reason I have not spoken to the "expectations" portion is that it seems that the hysteria is not in the reporting of failures but in the expectation of failure. Therein lies the problem.
I firmly believe that if the problem was as bad as it is perceived in the internet chat rooms, then surely there would have been a lawsuit that would be able to press PCNA into reporting the actual numbers stats guys like me seek and then we could have closure on this. Either (a) there is nothing to hide and the problem is blown out of proportion; (b) the numbers would reveal an epidemic on motor failure; or (c) PCNA agree to damages and future repair/replace without having to divulge numbers.
My guess is "a" but it is only a guess and not based on data.
My question to everybody is what do you think the magnitude of the perception would be WITHOUT the internet???
The reason I have not spoken to the "expectations" portion is that it seems that the hysteria is not in the reporting of failures but in the expectation of failure. Therein lies the problem.
I firmly believe that if the problem was as bad as it is perceived in the internet chat rooms, then surely there would have been a lawsuit that would be able to press PCNA into reporting the actual numbers stats guys like me seek and then we could have closure on this. Either (a) there is nothing to hide and the problem is blown out of proportion; (b) the numbers would reveal an epidemic on motor failure; or (c) PCNA agree to damages and future repair/replace without having to divulge numbers.
My guess is "a" but it is only a guess and not based on data.
My question to everybody is what do you think the magnitude of the perception would be WITHOUT the internet???
It's not berating people for having an engine failure or asking about them, but rather railing against those who presume to know about engine failure rates because of their own limited experience.
12-16-2008, 11:37 AM
#110
this is the main focus... I do understand that it may be hard to digest if you are one of the unfortunate... this wont be the last of these threads unfortunately.
12-16-2008, 11:52 AM
#111
Oh, purleese!
Not heard of the engine discussions? Have you been hiding in a cave in Afghanistan for a few years?
Ashamed of the 996, what part of troll-ville do you harken from? The 996 is a great car and nothing to be ashamed of.
If you're ashamed, then move on and buy something else.
Not heard of the engine discussions? Have you been hiding in a cave in Afghanistan for a few years?
Ashamed of the 996, what part of troll-ville do you harken from? The 996 is a great car and nothing to be ashamed of.
If you're ashamed, then move on and buy something else.
12-16-2008, 12:12 PM
#112
Drifting
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As far as I can tell, Flat-6 Performance shared his shops numbers with the forum, and at no time tried to extrapolate them to the M96 community as a whole.
It's the self appointed Police that get all hot and bothered about statistical significance to the community at large.
At what point did this forum become a place where a Porsche specialist, with years of experience with the cars we all own, has to defend himself for providing fellow forum users with useful information and perspective?
12-16-2008, 12:39 PM
#114
Personally, that's the route I'm thinking about going if my motor expires. As inexpensive as the 996 is becoming and now that we have some promising solutions to some of the potential short comings of the 996 motor why not keep and enjoy the car. Now you have options to make a stronger, faster more bulletproof car.
12-16-2008, 12:47 PM
#115
-td
12-16-2008, 01:12 PM
#116
I can't recall ever getting angry or upset over criticism of a car I happen to own
12-16-2008, 01:18 PM
#117
Burning Brakes
Your naive way in this subject matter speaks volumes. You really need to re-think your logic. So by your example, does that mean that since almost everybody that an oncologist sees dies of cancer that we all are going to suffer the same fate and should go into a hysterical campaign against God for creating a defective human?
And if you want somebody with "vast, and totally relevant experience" to be taken seriously he can't come in with the attitude he has shown and chastise with hypocrisy and unprovoked name calling.
As has been already stated......sypathize for those that have the blown motor but get some REAL data in that we can discuss. Until then it is just hollow statements.
And if you want somebody with "vast, and totally relevant experience" to be taken seriously he can't come in with the attitude he has shown and chastise with hypocrisy and unprovoked name calling.
As has been already stated......sypathize for those that have the blown motor but get some REAL data in that we can discuss. Until then it is just hollow statements.
My point is that new potential owners (many 1st time Porsche buyers) who might be considering a 996 as thier 1st car, and some % of those buyers needing a loan even for a $20-$30K purchase, have at least SOME risk for a potential MAJOR repair that is increased for cars that rolled off the line early on (1999) with original engines none of which having recieved the many updates that were instituted over time and morover, in to current remanufactured units. Many of these buyers aren't Rennlist members necessarily, and as many aren't shopping for a $25K car with 50% of the original purchase price additionally set aside in case the motor pops. They also aren't specifically coming to you for pre purchase advice are they? Hardly....they consult other owners en masse in fourms like this one and most importantly independent shops with at least a "sampling" of 1st hand experience with these cars so they can make an informed decision without fear of retribution from internet goons who police the web in an attempt to deny what so many others know. Search the web for 996 engine failures and you'll find thousands of threads from all over the world with owners who have had similiar experiences. Maybe they should speak to you so you can set them straight? It ain't happening.
Early build M96 cars with original motors are a more risky purchase than later cars or cars with a remanufactured engine. How can you say that's not sound advice? Buy the newest one you can afford, that's it. There's absolutley nothing unique or personal about it. There is a preponderance of data out there from owners and indy's that concur. One need only read the same 1st hand feedback from owners all over the world. As Porsche evovled the 996/997, later production cars experienced less failures. Boxster, same story.
Porsche is never going to send you a letter statisfying your statistical requirements for "proof" that the intermediate shaft design was flawed, or that there was an issue with the cylinder walls in early cars, or whatever else. Please stop hijacking threads that simply seek to discuss a legitiamte concern as difficult as it is for those owners that have not had the misfortune of a failure as small a % that might be.
12-16-2008, 01:33 PM
#118
Burning Brakes
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I confirm
Many of the 996 fanboys in this forum take criticism of the 996 personally, and that is very telling... Only someone who defines themselves by their material possessions would view criticism of those possessions as a direct personal insult.
I can't recall ever getting angry or upset over criticism of a car I happen to own
I can't recall ever getting angry or upset over criticism of a car I happen to own
12-16-2008, 01:38 PM
#119
Burning Brakes
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Well said
More of the same "statistics" hyperbole as predicted. This is why people post "paging Dell" whenever anyone speaks of the engine failure taboo that according to you and the rest of the Rennlist legitimate post/owner concern "vetting" commitee say is pure fiction. I never said the 996 wasn't a good car or recommend people not buy one. Look at my signature, I promptly moved out of my own detonated 1999 996 in to a new 01 996 and loved it. It was a fantastic car (albeit with RMS problems like the 1st one). So what, I was happy. I hate to break it to you but there are lots of things that go on in the world that we all know is happening but most don't "require" published empirical data to be convinced.
My point is that new potential owners (many 1st time Porsche buyers) who might be considering a 996 as thier 1st car, and some % of those buyers needing a loan even for a $20-$30K purchase, have at least SOME risk for a potential MAJOR repair that is increased for cars that rolled off the line early on (1999) with original engines none of which having recieved the many updates that were instituted over time and morover, in to current remanufactured units. Many of these buyers aren't Rennlist members necessarily, and as many aren't shopping for a $25K car with 50% of the original purchase price additionally set aside in case the motor pops. They also aren't specifically coming to you for pre purchase advice are they? Hardly....they consult other owners en masse in fourms like this one and most importantly independent shops with at least a "sampling" of 1st hand experience with these cars so they can make an informed decision without fear of retribution from internet goons who police the web in an attempt to deny what so many others know. Search the web for 996 engine failures and you'll find thousands of threads from all over the world with owners who have had similiar experiences. Maybe they should speak to you so you can set them straight? It ain't happening.
Early build M96 cars with original motors are a more risky purchase than later cars or cars with a remanufactured engine. How can you say that's not sound advice? Buy the newest one you can afford, that's it. There's absolutley nothing unique or personal about it. There is a preponderance of data out there from owners and indy's that concur. One need only read the same 1st hand feedback from owners all over the world. As Porsche evovled the 996/997, later production cars experienced less failures. Boxster, same story.
Porsche is never going to send you a letter statisfying your statistical requirements for "proof" that the intermediate shaft design was flawed, or that there was an issue with the cylinder walls in early cars, or whatever else. Please stop hijacking threads that simply seek to discuss a legitiamte concern as difficult as it is for those owners that have not had the misfortune of a failure as small a % that might be.
My point is that new potential owners (many 1st time Porsche buyers) who might be considering a 996 as thier 1st car, and some % of those buyers needing a loan even for a $20-$30K purchase, have at least SOME risk for a potential MAJOR repair that is increased for cars that rolled off the line early on (1999) with original engines none of which having recieved the many updates that were instituted over time and morover, in to current remanufactured units. Many of these buyers aren't Rennlist members necessarily, and as many aren't shopping for a $25K car with 50% of the original purchase price additionally set aside in case the motor pops. They also aren't specifically coming to you for pre purchase advice are they? Hardly....they consult other owners en masse in fourms like this one and most importantly independent shops with at least a "sampling" of 1st hand experience with these cars so they can make an informed decision without fear of retribution from internet goons who police the web in an attempt to deny what so many others know. Search the web for 996 engine failures and you'll find thousands of threads from all over the world with owners who have had similiar experiences. Maybe they should speak to you so you can set them straight? It ain't happening.
Early build M96 cars with original motors are a more risky purchase than later cars or cars with a remanufactured engine. How can you say that's not sound advice? Buy the newest one you can afford, that's it. There's absolutley nothing unique or personal about it. There is a preponderance of data out there from owners and indy's that concur. One need only read the same 1st hand feedback from owners all over the world. As Porsche evovled the 996/997, later production cars experienced less failures. Boxster, same story.
Porsche is never going to send you a letter statisfying your statistical requirements for "proof" that the intermediate shaft design was flawed, or that there was an issue with the cylinder walls in early cars, or whatever else. Please stop hijacking threads that simply seek to discuss a legitiamte concern as difficult as it is for those owners that have not had the misfortune of a failure as small a % that might be.
