How hard would getting a SBC engine into a 966 be? Anyone done it before?
08-28-2008, 12:06 PM
#16
08-28-2008, 02:17 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Well if you're going to go out and spend 25K, you're better off with the turbo at 27K than a whole new carrera driveline + SC. Run a good flash on the ECU and you'll be very happy.
08-28-2008, 03:32 PM
#19
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08-28-2008, 07:18 PM
#20
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And to that note, how many people have posted about blown engines on here? or if not blown at least needing somewhat major work, even more so if they arent driven much. I would say 10 to 1 over any LSx vehicle.
I actually dont ever recall seeing anyone blown an LSx engine without putting too much boost on it or too much nitrous. GM cars have had a lock out to prevent poor downshifts for YEARS so thats not a problem even.
I wont argue that Porsche makes a good engine, and makes lots of power. But there is no way you can say that they have less problems then an LSx.How many Porsche engines hit 200k miles without more then oil changes? hell even 160k.
To this day I have yet to buy a car or do anything to a car with "The next guy" in mind. **** him. Its my car and I will not do something just to please the "next guy".
08-28-2008, 07:25 PM
#21
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08-28-2008, 09:45 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Cory's right, this would sell as a drag car and for money. With proper planning 1000+bhp is possible and it won't cost a fortune.
I have a great deal of respect for the latest LS motors. They represent as much of a leap over the SBC/LT1 as the M96 did over the M64, in fact much more so. The 7K redline's higher than TT, titanium connecting rods, dry sump, 4140 crank, and power to weight far greater than any other big power motor. The LS7 puts out 550ish hp/tq from a 458lb package with stock cams, lifters, and injectors on pump gas. Dressed TT is nearly 100 lbs more and over 100 hp less, and an N/A 3.6 is about the same weight yet only 320ish bhp.
Reliability is going to be roughly equivalent, the GT1 block in the TT is known to handle massive boost
That having been said, this is a budget limited build for someone who wants to retain street features like slip and airbags and gauges etc. Sky's the limit budget for drag or even X class I would say roll up the sleeves, it would be a wild ride to figure this out. But given the situation, I think you need to just grab the TT drivetrain for 27K, you can drop it in yourself and it's pretty indestructible as turbo motors go. 25K or 27K it's no contest, TT drivetrain.
If you do decide to mess around with this though, start by buying an el cheapo Ls1 for 2K, do nothing to it, and see if you can get it to work. If so boost the crap out of it, and when it blows drop in the LS6, all the hard work will have been done an you'll have less risk.
A last note, equating the use of pushrods to low performance is a rather consumer oriented viewpoint, one needs only remember the Mercedes/Ilmor Indy motor to realize that for open displacement forced induction applications there are few better solutions, and when considering the true concern, power to weight, there is really nothing close to the LS7 in the naturally aspirated world short of the 6.3 litre AMG V8 at 525hp out 439 lbs (but $60-$70K for M156 crate) or a CGT M80 or the amazing F430 V8 at 490 hp and 417 lbs (360 is 400hp/408lbs). Cams, whether in block or overhead, and conventional valvetrains in general are low tech. If it's about state of the art, open your valves with magnets like the pros, or go to DC if you want to talk about engineering.
I have a great deal of respect for the latest LS motors. They represent as much of a leap over the SBC/LT1 as the M96 did over the M64, in fact much more so. The 7K redline's higher than TT, titanium connecting rods, dry sump, 4140 crank, and power to weight far greater than any other big power motor. The LS7 puts out 550ish hp/tq from a 458lb package with stock cams, lifters, and injectors on pump gas. Dressed TT is nearly 100 lbs more and over 100 hp less, and an N/A 3.6 is about the same weight yet only 320ish bhp.
Reliability is going to be roughly equivalent, the GT1 block in the TT is known to handle massive boost
That having been said, this is a budget limited build for someone who wants to retain street features like slip and airbags and gauges etc. Sky's the limit budget for drag or even X class I would say roll up the sleeves, it would be a wild ride to figure this out. But given the situation, I think you need to just grab the TT drivetrain for 27K, you can drop it in yourself and it's pretty indestructible as turbo motors go. 25K or 27K it's no contest, TT drivetrain.
If you do decide to mess around with this though, start by buying an el cheapo Ls1 for 2K, do nothing to it, and see if you can get it to work. If so boost the crap out of it, and when it blows drop in the LS6, all the hard work will have been done an you'll have less risk.
A last note, equating the use of pushrods to low performance is a rather consumer oriented viewpoint, one needs only remember the Mercedes/Ilmor Indy motor to realize that for open displacement forced induction applications there are few better solutions, and when considering the true concern, power to weight, there is really nothing close to the LS7 in the naturally aspirated world short of the 6.3 litre AMG V8 at 525hp out 439 lbs (but $60-$70K for M156 crate) or a CGT M80 or the amazing F430 V8 at 490 hp and 417 lbs (360 is 400hp/408lbs). Cams, whether in block or overhead, and conventional valvetrains in general are low tech. If it's about state of the art, open your valves with magnets like the pros, or go to DC if you want to talk about engineering.
08-28-2008, 09:46 PM
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I wasn't referring to "the next guy". From your first post cost seemed to be a factor in your descison making. Going with the TT motor would most likely reduce your Total Cost of Ownership over the Chevy. It's something you should think about. But hey... do what you want. I don't really give a **** 
08-28-2008, 09:48 PM
#24
Race Director
I recall seeing ads in Excellence about installing a V8 into a 911...I think it is possible and has been done. I'll check and see if I can find the ad for you.
08-29-2008, 03:10 AM
#26
I recently priced a new TT motor, and it was considerably more than that.
08-29-2008, 03:01 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
the OP said he had a line on a motor and transaxle for 27K total in his first post, so I keep using that number. Agreed it's a low number, new trans is ~10K alone
08-29-2008, 08:17 PM
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Upon hearing that the 27k seemed like a low quote I phoned Porsche again at lunch. When he answered the phone I knew it was the same guy. And i just said I would like to order the TT powertrain for the 27k I was quoted.
his reply "Uh hold on"
After being on hold for 5 minutes a new guy picked up the phone. Asked a few questions and then told me that they had never sold a TT driveline as parts and didnt even know how to look it up, the number was "just a guess". WTF!
since when do you guess on a quote...
He said he would have to make a couple calls and get back to me.
About 3 hours later I had a voice mail from him.
"The total for the TT drive line would be 58,719.18 with gst"
HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats almost half what the TT sells for.
A little discouraging to say the least. Althought it pretty much settles that I can not afford to put the TT engine in, unless I dont want to eat anymore, and even then.
This is a great idea. I would probably take it to the drag strip and keeping upping an N2O shot until she blew and see how fast a run I could make. (cheaper then boost).
Good news is I am waiting for my buddy to pick me up with the car hauler trailer to go pick the shell up
his reply "Uh hold on"
After being on hold for 5 minutes a new guy picked up the phone. Asked a few questions and then told me that they had never sold a TT driveline as parts and didnt even know how to look it up, the number was "just a guess". WTF!
since when do you guess on a quote... He said he would have to make a couple calls and get back to me.
About 3 hours later I had a voice mail from him.
"The total for the TT drive line would be 58,719.18 with gst"
HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats almost half what the TT sells for.
A little discouraging to say the least. Althought it pretty much settles that I can not afford to put the TT engine in, unless I dont want to eat anymore, and even then.
If you do decide to mess around with this though, start by buying an el cheapo Ls1 for 2K, do nothing to it, and see if you can get it to work. If so boost the crap out of it, and when it blows drop in the LS6, all the hard work will have been done an you'll have less risk.
Good news is I am waiting for my buddy to pick me up with the car hauler trailer to go pick the shell up
08-30-2008, 11:15 AM
#30
Race Director
LS6 engine belongs in a GM body car, not for an efficient Germany machine. Just don't go together.
Push rod isn't exactly the prefect design, too much energy lost. If you want perfect design look into a Ferrari small V8, the flat crank design is more enjoyable than the good old faithful flat 6. Of course that comes with a hefty price tag.
I hang out with American V8s (A small car meet in Chino every Sunday from 7-9am), hang out and see plenty of awesome pushrods everyweekend, regardless the Porsche body shape deserves something better then the push rod.
Push rod isn't exactly the prefect design, too much energy lost. If you want perfect design look into a Ferrari small V8, the flat crank design is more enjoyable than the good old faithful flat 6. Of course that comes with a hefty price tag.
I hang out with American V8s (A small car meet in Chino every Sunday from 7-9am), hang out and see plenty of awesome pushrods everyweekend, regardless the Porsche body shape deserves something better then the push rod.